I’m going to double down today.
I wrote a blog called “When You Lose Your Trust in God” some time ago and a few people have responded to it basically calling out God for His complicity in suffering. Their argument is that if God is all-powerful (which He is) then He could and should do something but because He doesn’t, He’s at fault.
I’ve engaged a couple of the people privately and have had great conversations with them about their situations and views. But there is always one point missing in their argument that I’m going to take on this morning.
This is going to sound really harsh but perhaps that is what is needed. The truth is this:
WE ARE AT FAULT FOR OUR SUFFERING NOT GOD.
All suffering comes from just a few sources:
- We suffer the consequences of our own actions – the whole reap what you sow thing.
- We suffer the consequences of other’s actions – the whole people transgressing against us thing.
- We suffer the consequences of the fall (man rebelling against God) – the whole natural disasters, fallen/sick bodies, people doing evil thing.
That’s it. God didn’t do any of this. WE DID when we rebelled against Him and decided that we knew better than He did what is best for us. We choose to go against God’s word and then we suffer the consequences.
I could be just like my new blog friends and blame God for a lot of things.
- God sat on the sidelines when I was being abused as a kid.
- God sat on the sidelines as my mother was paralyzed by MS.
- God sat on the sidelines when my dad went to jail over and over again.
- God sat on the sidelines when I was homeless.
- God sat on the sidelines when I didn’t have food to eat.
- God sat on the sidelines when I was abandoned.
- God sat on the sidelines when I was unemployed.
- God sat on the sidelines when I endured physical disabilities.
The list could go on and on. But it’s just not true.
- I was abused by people using their free will in an evil way.
- My mother’s body was fallen and thus susceptible to disease.
- My dad was an idiot and went to jail because he wouldn’t obey the law.
- I was homeless because the people who were supposed to take care of me made bad decisions.
- I didn’t eat because the person who was supposed to provide food didn’t want to work.
- I was abandoned because people involved were drunks and decided the bar was more important than caring for a child.
- I was unemployed because of decisions I made to quit or other’s decisions to let me go.
- I have physical disabilities because, like my mom, my body is a lemon.
I don’t blame God in any way because He isn’t responsible. It’s just that simple.
Now, what about Him being all powerful and having not just the ability but the responsibility to step in and help? And I’m not just talking about little things like my own personal issue but what about the big things like the Holocaust? Why didn’t God stop that?
Let me answer that question with a question: Do you like your free will? Do you like the fact you can make any decision you want to? I do – I like the fact that I can choose whatever I want to choose good, bad, or ugly. My life, my choice.
Some say we don’t actually have free will because God knows everything. Sure, He does but He’s not making you do anything – He just knows what you’re going to do. That’s not control; that’s just foreknowledge. There’s a difference.
God gave us free will for a reason. Every single relationship we have is a choice – if it weren’t it would be coercion and that’s not relationship. God gives us free will to choose a relationship with Him or not. He won’t coerce us into it. That’s why Christianity is a relationship not a religion.
Men absolutely abuse their free will, choosing not only to abandon God but to abandon what He stands for. Instead, they choose against God and do evil – EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US.
So, should God take away free will? Maybe just the free will of the bad people, right? Here’s the problem with that thinking:
WE ARE ALL BAD PEOPLE!
Scripture is clear, there is not one righteous person not one! All fall short of the glory of God. If this weren’t true, then we wouldn’t need a savior – we could get to heaven on our own good graces. But that is not the case! We need Jesus because we suck and must be saved from ourselves. So, if God were to take away free will He’d have to take away all of our free will not just the so-called “bad people.”
When we say that God is at fault because He didn’t intervene what we’re really saying is God is being unfair to me because I don’t deserve whatever is happening. So, it’s God’s fault.
NO, IT’S NOT.
Just like God doesn’t take away your free will when you do stupid stuff, He doesn’t take away anyone else’s free will either – including the Hitlers of the world.
In our finite thinking, that just is outrageous! But you have to understand the bigger picture here or you’re going to really suffer in this world.
There is this thing called eternity. We all live forever – there will be a new heaven and new earth and God’s original plan of Eden comes to fruition. When you die an earthly death, you enter into an eternal life. Those of us who choose a savior get an eternal life of perfection – no more tears, no more suffering, perfection just like in the original Garden.
I have suffered in this life – I’ve suffered physically, mentally, and emotionally. God could have stepped in and stopped it, but He knows that this short little life I live here is a blink compared to the eternity I have. My eternity is such that just like Paul writes I won’t even consider the sufferings of this world of any value whatsoever.
To put it another way, God plays the long game while we play the short one. We focus on the here and now and suffer for it. God knows what eternity holds and clearly tells us in scripture to keep our eyes on heavenly things. Jesus tells us that we will have trouble in this world – especially if we follow Him – but to take heart because He has overcome the world!
I’m the first to agree with people that this place sucks and can be really unfair and unjust. People are evil and we suffer for it. But to blame God instead of ourselves is a cop out.
God didn’t do anything but love us. We’re the ones who rebelled against Him; we are the ones who broke the covenant with Him; we’re the ones who transgress against each other; we’re the ones who make decisions that adversely affect ourselves and others; we’re the ones who caused the fall of perfection by choosing against God’s ways; we’re the ones who abandoned God not the other way around. We are the ones who are guilty not God.
Ever heard of the 12-Step Program? AA uses it as well as other addiction programs. The first step in all these programs is admitting you have a problem. Our faith is no different – we have to admit that WE are the problem and not blame God, Satan, or anyone else. God wants us to own our issues so that we come to the conclusion that we need a savior. Until we get through that first step there isn’t much God can do for us because we live in denial just like the addict.
That leaves one more question: Why pray if God doesn’t actually intervene?
In re-reading what I’ve written I could see how you could come to that conclusion. But I think I’d put it this way. God does intervene. Scripture says God uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Once you get your relationship straight with Him – admit you need a Savior; accept Jesus as that Savior; understand that God is God and you’re not; submit to the idea that God’s ways are not your ways; and abide in Christ for all things – God then can intervene in your life because you are one of His children. But until you do these things – when you fight Him, blame Him, accuse Him, and reject Him – there’s not much He can or will do for you.
This is hard learning. We all want God to act like we would act. We all want God to do what we consider to be the right thing. We all consider God unreasonable when He doesn’t do what we believe the Bible says He should do. But my advice is this: Look in the mirror.
In my younger days I called on God repeatedly and He didn’t answer. The reason? I had one foot firmly planted in my worldly dysfunction and wouldn’t move it toward God and instead expected God to answer me on my terms. God doesn’t work that way. He moves on His own terms, and we must move toward Him.
For my blog friends who have written me about that original blog, I know none of this will change your mind. My only hope is that you will continue to talk with God about your anger, hurt, and struggles to the point where you will submit to the idea that Jesus actually does want to help you in your lives but needs you to actually believe and have faith not based on some kind of prosperity gospel – if you do what God wants you’ll get great stuff – but based on the Gospel of eternal life – when you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that God is good you will be blessed regardless of your worldly circumstances.
Heavy, Deep & Real 
Tom, I usually support your ideas, and I find you are a wise friend. However, I definitely take issue with “We are bad people.” First of all, in Genesis, God celebrated the creation of humanity (yeah, I know it was before “the devil made me do it.” But still, as has been pointed out, God KNEW — being omniscient — what was going to happen. If it had been any different, if the outcome had been different, God — again due to his omniscience — would have known that. This is true throughout all of humanity’s experiences, which does beg the question if there really is truly free will.
Second, Jesus’ death and resurrection cancelled out all of those sins. Yes, in most cases, our suffering is the consequence of our thoughts and actions or inactions. And yes, often it is also the result of others’ choices, their thoughts and actions or inactions. The result of things over which we have no control. Do I “blame” God for not doing something about it? I may be puzzled at times as to why something has happened (like the Holocaust, a monumental tragedy which has happened over and over again throughout history when one people worked very hard to harm or even eliminate other people. Look at the “holocausts” of North American settlers on the indigenous people of this continent.) Holocausts at any time are evil, and if we were all perfect in mind and spirit, they wouldn’t happen. Ultimately I can only pray that God supports us and sees us through all the evil. But “we are bad people?” No, our actions may be bad, or evil, or mis-guided, or any number of negative descriptions. But remember, we are ALL Children of God, and thus are loved and cherished by our Loving Father, who doesn’t see us as “bad” but knows that we can and will make mistakes. Just like a loving parent doesn’t, in most cases, place a “bad” judgement on a child who makes mistakes, whether from disobedience, wilfulness, or ignorance. That loving parent continues to LOVE the child and try to guide the child to learn how to make good decisions. As the child grows, he/she receives support from other areas as well — family friends, relatives. teachers, social systems. I can attest to that personally, having had serious challenges in my own life, although not to the extent you have had, but I can guarantee that the support I received from people other than my parents was crucial in guiding me in the path I am on now. I still make bad or wrong choices at times, but that doesn’t make ME bad; it just taints my spirit/soul to recognize what I’ve done or not done and, with God’s grace and love, to learn from and grown away from such choices. That is why, as a Catholic, I go to Confession regularly.
Please continue to share your wisdom with all of us, including me. Even when I have an idea that is different from yours, I appreciate and learn from you as well. You’re a dear friend. In fact, when my siblings visit me in September, I’m hoping my sister Monica will have the opportunity to meet you and hear your preach; she’s an Evangelical Christian and I know she would appreciate sharing ideas with you.
Blessings, dear friend.
Affectionately,
Veronica
I was one of those who believe it is God’s “fault” or God’s “will” or God’s “plan” that we suffer. He does orchestrate it. Even the Crucifixion.
God says in Isaiah 53:10 “Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and “cause him to suffer”, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.”
So who caused it? Who’s ultimate “fault” was it? It certainly wasn’t Pontius Pilate or the Pharisees. It was the Father’s.
You also seem to suggest we suffer and like sucks and we’re to blame. But Jesus said
”but I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” (Matt. 5:44-55)
Job said in Chapter 2 verse 10 “ He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said. He clearly acknowledges God sends both good and trouble. You also say
“ when you fight Him, blame Him, accuse Him, and reject Him – there’s not much He can or will do for you. ”
I don’t see that bore out in Matthew’s 5; 44-55. God can and does extend Mercy and Grace to the unbeliever. Even those who are angry at him. Just read how angry Job was in chapters 16 and 17.
He states “ “Surely, God, you have worn me out; you have devastated my entire household. You have shriveled me up—and it has become a witness; my gauntness rises up and testifies against me. God assails me and tears me in his anger and gnashes his teeth at me; my opponent fastens on me his piercing eyes. God has turned me over to the ungodly and thrown me into the clutches of the wicked. All was well with me, but he shattered me; he seized me by the neck and crushed me. He has made me his target; his archers surround me. Without pity, he pierces my kidneys and spills my gall on the ground. Again and again he bursts upon me; he rushes at me like a warrior.”
Sounds pretty angry to me.
And yet again as we saw in Matthew 5, Jesus clearly states in God is good to all.
Clearly there’s a lot God can and will do even if we struggle with His will.
As I pointed out before God Himself declares in Isaiah 45:7
“I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.”
Hard to say it’s all our fault and God is not involved when He makes such a declarative statement like that.
Lastly you say “we are bad people’. If you are saved then you are not “bad people” you are righteous in God’s eyes….forever!
In any event this is your blog. You have a right to believe as you wish. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I struggle to believe anyone would even write this stuff. No human free will or actions causes things like tornadoes, earthquakes or tsunamis. Likewise, we are not responsible for many diseases. I did not do anything to cause the disabilities that I was born with – and nor did anyone else. Simply, you can’t blame people for these things. To say so is totally absurd. And as for the fallen world narrative – well, there was no fallen world. There has been death and suffering in the world as long as there have been living and sentient creatures – long before humans existed. The same with Earthquakes, tsunamis, diseases etc. These all happened long before humans appeared. You cannot blame human sin for these things. I don’t understand how anyone with an ounce of intelligence could possibly believe this rubbish.
Hey David,
Thanks for your thoughts.
Perhaps I’m just a dolt, but I would respectfully disagree with you. If not a fallen world – if no God – then what is the explanation for all this? My mom had MS and was bedridden right after I was born and spent 20 years in a nursing home and died. For what? I, too, have disabilities that have pretty much taken away my quality of life – for what? Is it all chance?
My two arguments about this go like this:
1. Do you have a soul? If so, what happens to it when you die? If you don’t then your life here is completely meaningless because you’ll die and within three generations you’ll just be a name on Ancestor.com. Nothing you did here really matters because even if you did something for humanity they’re going to die, too!
2. The argument that there is no God assumes that something came from nothing. That, scientifically, is impossible. There always has to be a first cause. What’s more plausible: Something came from nothing, or something came from something? I actually think it takes more faith to believe that something came from nothing – a one cell ameba out of primordial ooze miraculously appears and then morphs into life ranging from sucker fish to man – than it takes to believe in God’s word.
That said, I definitely respect your opinion. I get where you’re coming from if you don’t have the God narrative to explain it.