When You Lose Trust in God

This may sound weird, but I always cringe a little when people say, “Just give it up to God,” or “Let go and let God.” I get what they’re saying and at the 40,000 foot view it’s exactly right. But when people are in crisis, letting go and giving the pain up to God just isn’t that simple.

One of the biggest barriers is the fact that in crisis, someone may actually have lost trust in God, which makes it impossible just to turn around and give your problems to Him. Here’s why.

As Christians, most of us rightly trust God to prosper us and not harm us, and to provide and protect us. That’s what scripture says and that’s what preachers preach. So when something bad happens to us – usually someone doing something bad or even evil where we become the victim – we naturally ask why God didn’t protect us as He said He would. This is a tricky space to live in and one in which it is easy to lose trust or even blame God for our circumstances.

I think intellectually we know that this isn’t true. We know that God did not do anything to us or cause our situation, and that we are where we are because someone acted out in their free will, disobeying God’s commands and hurting us. But emotionally we say to ourselves, “Yes, but God allowed it, so He is someone I can’t trust, because He allows me to get hurt.” This may be especially true when our fallen bodies contract an illness, such as cancer.

Trust – or lack thereof – is a deal breaker. If I can’t trust someone, our entire relationship is off. When we can’t trust God, we tend to push Him out of our lives. We stop talking with Him, we stop relying on Him, we stop listening to Him, and sometimes we even feel betrayed by Him and are angry with Him.

So how do you regain trust with God when you feel as if He’s complicit in your pain?

First, you need to work through intellectually and emotionally that God did not do anything to you. Yes, He allowed something to happen, but just like He can’t take away your free will, He couldn’t take away the free will of the person who transgressed against you. Yes, it sucks, but God didn’t cause the problem, someone else did. Don’t project your pain, disappointment, and emotions against God. Instead, understand who God is in your relationship and follow his instructions to forgive the person who transgressed so that you are not a slave to that person’s actions.

If you’re struggling with the pain of a terminal illness, again understand intellectually and emotionally that this also is not God’s fault, it’s actually man’s fault! When we sinned originally, our perfect bodies became imperfect. We get diseases and die. This was not God’s plan, but happened because of our sin. This also sucks – I didn’t sin originally yet I’m stuck with a sin nature, a fallen body, and the consequences of it all. It just doesn’t seem fair, but it is what it is and it’s not God’s doing. We have to get to a place in our lives where we accept this fact.

Second, look back over your life and see where God was at various times. Write it down and see how God’s hand works in your life. I think you will see that God never abandoned you – even in the worst circumstances – and that instead He walked by your side every step of the way. If you see that, you can understand that He’s doing it now, too, even when you’re mad at Him. Nobody can every snatch you from His hand and He will always love you.

Third, it helps if you realize how much God trusts you! See, God knew you before the beginning of the world. He knew everything you would do, every sin you would commit, every knuckleheaded decision you would make yet He still created you on purpose! He trusts you to be in relationship with Him. He trusts you with your free will to make good decisions. And He trusts you that you will come to Him when you screw up and make it right. Scripture tells us that we love because God first loved us. I would propose that we can trust God because he first trusted us.

Lastly, you have to get over yourself. It’s not about you. You may be hurting so you are a little self-focused, defensive, and scared of being hurt again. But the creator of the universe – the God of the heavens and the Earth – wants to have a relationship with you! He wants to help heal you! He wants to be by your side and get you through this! Stop being a brat and go to the one person who actually can keep His promise and ease your suffering! Let’s admit it, we sometimes like wallowing in our pain. Some even like being the victim, because of all the attention they get. It’s time to grow up a bit and focus on God instead of ourselves. When our hearts are broken we need to go to the person who created our hearts. When our souls are in distress, we need to go the person who gave us our souls. But we can’t do that when we are focused on ourselves. I tell people in crisis, “Look up, don’t look down.” God is your answer not your enemy.

I hope I’m not that guy telling people to give it up to God or to let go and let God. But I do hope I’m that person telling folks that God is not the problem here, He is the solution.

101 responses to “When You Lose Trust in God”

  1. I read this and it’s like a broken record. What’s sad is that I’ve given the same tired advice! And it’s tired! Come on! God is in charge. He can do anything he wants. He doesn’t have to take away someone’s free will, but he can do a better job at the helping the victims. And when I look back on my life I realize I only received his table scrapps while some of the same people who destroyed my life was given more and more gifts and power to continue their destruction! There’s so many people who have lost their faith because we can’t give them better advice than what I’m reading here and it’s the same tired advice. As Christians we must do better because I for one can see obvious flaws in the repeats of these, “God is good all the time,” words. You just have to look at the current state of the world then look at history. Heck, read the Bible without personal or organized religion biased interpretation. I’ll never say I don’t believe in God, but as someone who has lived her entire life dependant on God only to finally see at age 45 that my life is worse (and when I look back on my life and all those times I rejoiced over my “blessings” only for those exact blessings to lead me further into the hole) one gets lost. When you do your best to do what’s right and you look around you and you see so many people struggling trying to do what’s right only for the cruelty of the powerful to block them, you run out of Bible text to justify these things. And compared to many others’, my life is just complicated. Why must God allow the rest of the suffering? Your words do not justify the evils of this world growing more powerful and God doing nothing. I know you are only doing your best. That’s all we can do. But, these words are wearing thin. When one feels betrayed by God, one needs more than empty promises because it’s the empty promises that lead to the feeling of betrayal. Thank you for your time.

    1. Thanks for your heart-felt comment. Just a couple thoughts – God’s ways are not our ways so how we see things may not be how God sees them. Yes, tired old Christian dogma but still true. Also, Satan is the prince of this world so what do we expect? Our job as Christians is to shine the light of Christ in a VERY dark world, which is why we are told that our weapons are not the same as the worlds, but instead we use love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. Certainly, we all fail at this! But God is good – we aren’t. God allows what He allows and I have no idea why. I actually would disagree that you run out of Bible text to justify things – God doesn’t answer to man, it’s the other way around so the Bible – God’s word – is good enough. Life can suck – if you read my bio you’ll know I’ve been there, done that, and have the t-shirt. But, I’ve never lost my faith because I believe that God is good and He knows what He’s doing even when I don’t understand it or even agree with it.

      1. when you give up on trusting an imaginary person who lives in the sky and claims he will burn you in hell for rejecting him is a sign that you are recovering from a mental illness.Trusting a utterly non existent god is beyond delusional.Fuck you’re never never land god and his non existent zombie 🧟 Jesus.

      2. lying cunt simple as that all Christians are delusional lying cunts

    2. Thank you for your note! I get it. But I also know that if your honest and review the events of your life that most of what happens to us is not God’s fault but the actions of people. We suffer the consequences of our own actions. We suffer the consequences of other’s actions. Sometimes we are just innocent bystanders and get creamed! Sometimes life is a crap sandwich. Believe me, I’ve eaten my share!! But, that isn’t an indictment about God. He is the same yesterday, today and forever, which means my “tired” advice is actually eternal advice. This whole thing we live isn’t about us; it’s about Jesus. Rain falls on the righteous and unrighteous alike. Our job is to keep the faith, do the work the Lord planned for us before the beginning of time, and keep our eyes on heaven. I’m not going to blow sunshine up your you-know-what; sometimes life sucks. And for some, their entire life sucks. But ask yourself this question: what does that have to do with eternity? Man has free will and uses it in rebellion to God, fighting wars, oppressing each other, harming each other and even worse! God told us plainly that when sin entered the world the entire creation fell so we live in a broken world whose “prince” is Satan himself. But again, that has nothing to do with eternity. God tells us that He will dry every eye, heal us, and perfect us in heaven. AND…in this crappy world, Jesus is the only hope we have! So, I’ll continue to be a broken record with tired advice about who God is because He’s always the same. Look, the Bible doesn’t justify anything; what it says is that men are evil, Jesus had to die to pay the penalty for their sin, and those who don’t want that free gift of grace will justice with face eternal separation from God. Not sure that elevates any of the pain you’re feeling, but I wanted to respond to your thoughts, which I very much appreciate you sharing!

    3. Linda Carei Ro Avatar
      Linda Carei Ro

      Do not blame the God just because you was accepting someone to breack youre heart,I am sure God was showing to you many signs to quit but you choose to stay,whatever was you’re reason God is always there but some people can’t see or feel or recognise God’s signs,because they busy with they selfishness and Forget that God do exist,and you not Followed God way you done you’re way,and Instead of try to get Closer to God you was accept it to destroy you’re life because someone else was having power over you by forgetting God power!

      instead of Blame God for you’re selfishness and unbelieving blame you’re self being Blind and by not following God’s willingness instead you accept to deny he’s existence!

      hmmm what world we lieve people have no trust in God because they accept the sin and not sake’s to accept that God existing and he’s werry Good kind and loving person!

      may he forgives you and put trust and love in you’re heart to can understand he’s ways and do things by he’s way and not you’re way!

      Amen!

      God is Great and werry Good to people who believe in him with all they heart!

      1. The lack of empathy and compassion in your reply is astounding, wow. So is someone with an illness selfish for praying to be healed, and for being discouraged when their situation gets worse? Are they selfish for praying for a loved one’s health, only to lose them?

        Blaming other people for their despair and for their grief is not going to turn them toward God. Loving them, listening to them, and giving them compassion will.

      2. JJ –

        Thanks for your thoughts. Not sure you read what I wrote within the context. I see your email is “Frustrated Human” which tells me that you may see things through a tough lens. Of course, we pray and care, and love. But we also understand that God is sovereign and His ways ARE best even when we are struggling. There was no blaming people in that post – it was about what to do when God seems not to do what you want Him to do and instead does what HE deems right based on His sovereign judgment. For some better context you may want to go to my other website – http://www.tommann.org and pull down my book Do You Want to Be Healed and read the first chapter. It will give you my background of pain, abuse, neglect, abandonment, mental health, death, and suffering so you can see where I’m coming from.

        Tom

    4. it hurt my heart reading your post. Advice I was given onetime that rocked my thinking from a grave injustice was that I’d just experience how Jesus felt going to the cross. Unlike him, we are not! This journey sucks in the flesh, yet one day our souls will rejoice whether we understand it now or not.

      1. Hi,

        Yes, this life is a lot of pain. In fact, someone once described the Bible as a book of trauma. Truth – check out my book to find out my back story; been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Yet – GOD! He is GOOD and we will be glorified when this life is over and have eternity in peace, love, and joy.

        Tom

  2. Roshni CdeBaca Avatar
    Roshni CdeBaca

    I am a practicing Christian and I love God immensely. I was surfing the web to find out how to come to terms with heart breaking loss and be able to move on a trust God again as my best friend just had a still born baby recently. I have to say, your write up with all due respect has such a lack of feeling because clearly you haven’t been thru heart breaking loss. God is powerful enough to love us when we are goi g thru our angry depressed lives. We don’t need people to tell us we are being a brat and making it about ourselves coz God would never ever say that to us. He was so broken by Mary and Martha’s raw emotions when Lazarus died that he broke him back from the dead. If you have not been thru loss and cannot be more deep and thoughtful I. Your advice don’t speak about this subject please. You are not helping people in their grief find God but instead speaking words of hurt and shame on them.

    1. Roshni – I’m sorry for your suffering. Actually, though, you are wrong about what I’ve been through. I grew up in 12 different homes – my dad was in and out of jail my entire youth and my mother had MS and was bedridden for 20 years before she died. I only saw her every several years. I suffered physical and emotional abuse and neglect in my own home and foster care. Then I suffered with the results of that abuse in the form of PTSD and more. I get suffering more than most. That said, I believe in God’s healing more than I do any temporal suffering. Scripture is clear on this as Paul write in Romans 8:18, ” I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.” We also are told to rejoice in all circumstances (1 Thes. 5:16) as well as to rejoice in suffering of all kinds (Romans 5:3-5). I spent a lot of years fighting God on this stuff. How could He allow my mother to suffer as she did when she did nothing wrong? How could I get abused the way I was when I did nothing wrong? Why was my family separate time and time again when we did nothing wrong? Hard questions to be sure, but God has an answer that you may not like: God uses all things for the good of those who love Him (Romans 8:28). Again, I am sorry for your pain, but be a bit careful making assumptions about people you don’t know – everyone has their pain but God is bigger than all of it. Blessings to you.

    2. 1deecee12 Avatar
      1deecee12

      I agree with you Roshni, I came to this site to find out how to overcome that mis-trust when you love God and need encouragement to move on from the mistrust after loss. Yes there is alot of pain caused by sin in the world and for those who are followers of Christ understand this. It is when you feel you are so close to him and then the rug is pulled out from under you, whether it was a tragic death of a loved one, or you do not understand a clear sign from God that spiraled downhill! Calling people brats and immature is far from Christian and yes most of the time our pain stems from sin whether it is sickness or heart break but there are times you feel certain God has called you in one direction or certain God is protecting you and you get completely blind sighted! It took me years to fully trust God after I was convinced that I had married the right man, even with signs from above only to find out he had been cheating , and yes hind sight I realized there were signs, but because I trusted God I went through with the wedding. I have a beautiful daughter and granddaughter now and I would not have had so I have learned to trust again but it took time. I recently listened to a woman who when she was 6 lost her sister in a fire and both her parents lost their minds after that. THey were Christians and she never could understand why God allowed this. This is unexplainable. My friend lost his brother in a freak accident right in front of him, the family all prayed and are Christian, but they still ask Why? They know thier brother is in heaven and the little girl is in heaven, but the pain is incredible. That pain is the pain of this world the pain of death and original sin. It sucks. THis life is very very short so all we can do is lean on him because without him we are completely alone. God bless you Roshni

  3. Thanks this actually helped me alot.
    What I’ve been going through is a bit different, more like internal mental torture; but still ended up in the same place of lack of trust. like you mentioned I knew in my mind that I should love God but my heart was afraid to trust God again. I kept getting the “look up” speach till I kind of started scoffing and stopped praying. I honestly entered a state of not caring because I thought, “what’s the sense if the enemy seems more present than God?” It seemed like the devil was more in charge or at least bothered to harass me than God. How could I trust God to not like it felt like one of his most basic promises to never leave me alone was broken?
    But this has helped level my head somewhat going to come back and read it ever so often.
    Thank you again.

    1. Hey!

      Thanks for the note and glad the blog helped a little. It’s tough – the devil attacks and attacks and attacks and it seems as if God is nowhere to be found sometimes. But here’s a thought: When you read the book of Job you realize that what God really did was choose Job as His champion. He pitted Job against the devil and basically told Satan, “Job’s my guy – all the house money is on him!” God trusted Job completely to keep the faith – his only task – no matter what Satan did to him. And God was right. You may feel like Job sometimes but that just means that God has chosen you as His champion and all you have to do to win the fight is keep the faith no matter what Satan does to you. God trusts you that much. Just a thought!

      Tom

    2. you said what I felt. It helped me because separating the flesh and the spirit is difficult. Jesus never asked anyone how do you feel, he would ask what think yea. Who do you say that I am. Renewing the mind daily is what we need in this life.

  4. You say we can look back and make a list of times we were blessed? Ok, so there were a few times, but they pale in comparison to the suffering. Looking back I see that each of His betrayals was worse than the last. Since that number is large, that means His betrayals are becoming enormous. I trusted Him because I was told to. And I always give my trust when I first meet a person, so that’s what I did with God. But, once that trust is broken, it is up to that person, or in this case, God to regain that trust. The first time I give freely, after that you have to prove yourself to be worthy of being trusted again. Given God is supposed to know everything through all time, He sure doesn’t understand this fundamental truth. I try to talk to Him, but He doesn’t respond. I try to live as closely to the way my grandfather (a minister) lived (he’s the most Jesus like many I’ve ever known), but it doesn’t matter. The rest of my family is a nearly perfect example of achieving the American dream of wealth, stable family, and happiness with little to complain about. Me? A complete 180 degrees. It’s so bad, there’s sort of a running joke that if something bad happens in our family, it must be me. Why am I treated so differently if God has no favorites? Continue with your predictable but wholly ineffective responses, it changes nothing. If God isn’t with you, you’re just toast. He could change everything in a heartbeat and chooses not to. That says all I need to know about His character. It’s on Him at this point. If He really wants a relationship and will truly leave the 99 to seek out the 1, where the heck is He? Just another false promise. How can you say God is all good when He knows every suffering that we will endure before we are even born? The only answer is He gets some sort of positive emotion out of our suffering. If He didn’t, He’d end it immediately. God is just mean.

    1. Jeff – I’m so sorry to hear the pain in your note. So, no platitudes from me. Only this: When you look at God betraying you was it really God or was it someone acting out their free will in a way that harmed you? Was it really God or was it the consequences of your own actions? Was it really God or was it Satan oppressing you? When I read your note the first thing that came to my mind was, “I think he only learned part of the Bible – the part that says if you’re good you get good.” There is a heckuva lot more in there about suffering. David complains that the unrighteous prosper while the righteous suffer. Peter, Paul, John, and James all write about the righteous suffering. Why? As Jesus said, we will have trouble in this world because Satan is the prince of this world. I say this as someone who has suffered. I grew up in 12 different homes, was abused in my own home and in the various foster homes. I was homeless as a kid and adult, didn’t have food, was abandoned, and suffer from C-PTSD due to it all. I’ve had evil people do evil things to me. I’ve suffered the consequences of my own stupid actions. And like you I was pissed at God for it all for a long time until I realized He didn’t do it. Others were responsible for the outcomes in my life – not God. All Jesus wanted to do was help me but like you I pushed Him away because I was too busy blaming Him instead of turning to Him and trying to understand what role He actually wanted to play. Took me 40 years to really truly understand that. It’s okay to be mad at God. It’s okay to even yell at Him. But keep talking with Him even if you’re not hearing back – He hears you but perhaps isn’t going to respond unless you soften your heart enough to actually listen to what He has to say. I know – I’ve been there, done that, and got the t-shirt.

      1. The assertion you make in the beginning of your response misses its mark. There are some things I’ve done that were certainly my fault, and I’ve always accepted that responsibility. As for the Bible, I have always understood that suffering was a major component of God’s “plan”. My grandfather was a minister who never sugar coated things.

        But the worst things that have happened to me were perpetrated by someone else or by God Himself. When it came to answering my prayer or the competing prayer of someone else, I always lose. And several times God has allowed things to happen out of the blue for no apparent, and certainly no worthy, reason. Nothing, I repeat, nothing happens without God’s approval. So we can blame “others” all you want, but if God didn’t approve it, it wouldn’t have happened. That makes Him at least equally responsible. But God never has to be responsible because He just argues “free will”, which is a hoax in a relationship in which He can never be surprised, the key element in any definition of free will.

        What I would like is a bit of balance. Is that really unreasonable? Or is it unreasonable to want to enjoy the same kind of life the rest of my family gets to live?

        And I’m unwilling to absolve a God, who knows all things through all time and is all-powerful, from responsibility for the lives of those He created. If I make a clay pot with an obvious hole in it, is it the pot’s fault that it fails? God created me, so He knew exactly what every moment of my life would be. And He allowed all of it and wants to call it good and have me praise and worship Him for it? You would think God would know that doesn’t work with me. His actions have permanently damaged me spiritually to such a degree that I’m no longer sure that even He could ever repair it. If He thinks that my heart will soften without Him taking the initiative with definitive actions to reach out to me and allow me to experience some of the “good”, then I have to wonder if He really has any clue about who I am.

        Oh, and while I certainly sympathize with what you experienced, that is not justification for what God allows. Just because others suffer does NOT make it right.

      2. Good Morning, Jeff,

        Thanks for your clarification and sharing your heart on this. To be honest, I have certainly felt the same way. My mom had MS and was bedridden right after she had me. Never really had a mom in that she was pretty much in nursing homes and then died in one when I was 20. My dad was in an out of jail my entire life. I asked the VERY same questions you do when all that was happening, “What did my mom or I do to deserve this?” If Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world it couldn’t be punishment for sin because that was taken care of. So, what is the deal? Did God just hate us? Did God just hate me for no reason? In my early to mid 20s I was extremely damaged emotionally and mentally from the experience. I claimed Jesus but my life looked nothing like it. Pretty much lived as I wanted to live – sex, drugs, and rock and roll!

        You are ABSOLUTELY correct that nothing happens without God’s authority so it’s not like before the beginning of the world when He decided to make you and me that He didn’t know what would happen to us. But you’re also right about free will and I would argue that not really a hoax. The way I see it is God gives people free will but you only have one of two choices to really make: Follow Him or Don’t Follow Him. Every other thing you do flows from that choice. So, when I wasn’t really following Him regardless of what I said, I self-medicated with drugs and alcohol, I was emotionally abusive to women, I was constantly angry, I HATED people, I had both suicidal and homicidal ideation, and was pretty much just an ass-hat. Like you, I never really thought I could break from that. My relationship with God was this: God would knock me down and to spite Him I’d get back up!

        So, how did it change? God continued to break me until I was completely broken and had no where else to turn and when I turned I was angry with God and let Him know about it. Jacob wrestled with God and I always tell people it’s okay to be mad at God and wrestle with Him. It’s okay to yell at Him and tell Him how you really feel. It’s not like He doesn’t know. When I did it God finally responded which changed everything – not all at once but started the process.

        I’m groping in the dark a bit with our conversation because I don’t know what you see that God actually did to you in tangible terms. I feel as if you don’t believe He’s answered your prayers and that is important! But do you feel He actually reached out and smote you in some way? Did He punish you in your mind? Was it discipline or unwarranted?

        Thanks for continuing the conversation. I hope you don’t feel I’m being too inquisitive.

        Tom

      3. I appreciate your efforts. As for the free will, you cannot convince me. God has always known EXACTLY which decision we would make. That isn’t free will, it’s following His design. He knows when you’ll make bad decisions and He knows when others will cause you grief. He knows every single one of those infinite number of decisions, but just sits on His throne and lets us suffer. That’s HIS decision.

        I’m a bit different than you in that though I had my period of self-medicating my depression and anger, I was ALWAYS a nice guy to everyone else. I helped the hungry. I went into teaching when I most people said that was a waste of my talents. I often put aside my needs for the needs of others. I wasn’t a saint, but I was never as you say, “an ass-hat”. Evidently, that isn’t one of the considerations taken into account by God. Good, bad, indifferent, it seems it’s all the same. If you win the luck lottery, you get a great life, even if your a mean-spirited narcissist. Lose that luck lottery and it doesn’t matter how good you are (or how faithful you are for that matter), you’re screwed.

        It’s time for God to realize that you can do more than break a person, you can destroy them. Even gold can be destroyed if you heat it to too high a temperature. And, if God knows us so well, how is it He doesn’t know that I’m far too stubborn to ever give in to this approach? It’s a matter of standing for what is right. For me, it’s a righteous stand.

        And I don’t worry about whether God cares whether I’m angry at him. I know He can handle it and already is aware. And even if He doesn’t like it? Too freaking bad for Him. I’ve been angry at Him for most of the last 44 years. I’ve been BEYOND angry at Him for the last 16 years when He rewarded my return to the fold by putting me through even worse crap than before. That’s the reward for trying to become close to Him? Screw that. He hasn’t had a single dang word to say to me in those 16 years. Now it’s personal. I want to hear from Him DIRECTLY!!! As far as I’m concerned He’s a coward for being unwilling to meet me “face to face”.

        As for why? I haven’t a clue. I was praising and worshiping Him, sacrificing what I wanted so I could be a father to my daughters (in a town I hated for the entire 18 years I was there) and working hard to fix problems from the past and giving time to others (like running the church food bank). So, what the heck did I do wrong? The fact is that God has ALWAYS treated me like He hates me. It started when I was only 13 and has gone on almost continuously since. How is that warranted? So, you tell me, because God doesn’t have the balls to tell me Himself.

      4. Hey Jeff!

        Sorry for the delay. Was on the go yesterday from 6 a.m. until about 10 p.m. last night.

        The free will question is a real bear! Here’s how I look at it. Ever see a toddler walk around? Imagine the kid running around the living room and you just know that he’s going to trip and hit his head on the coffee table. You tell the kid to slow down and be careful – several times! But he just looks at you with that little demonic smile they get as if saying “Pack sand! I’ll do what I want!” So the kid just keeps running and around and sure enough – BANG – he trips and hits his head on the coffee table.

        You absolutely knew that was going to happen but did you cause it? Nope, the kid did because he didn’t listen and chose to do it his own way.

        That’s how I see God and free will. God absolutely knows what we’re going to do but He doesn’t cause it. He warns us! But we don’t listen. So, it is determinism – we really have no choice in the matter because God knows? I don’t feel that way. I think I can make any decisions I want – God just knows what it will be but He’s not causing that decisions just because He knows.

        I feel bad for you my friend! Sounds like you’ve had a VERY rough life and your spirit is crushed. I would only share this: God doesn’t hate you because it would be outside his character to do so. Why He’s allowed what He has allowed I have no idea. Why He hasn’t responded to you in a way that meets you where you need Him to meet you I also don’t know because I just don’t know enough about your history. But I’m going to pray like crazy that God reveals all this to you so at least you get some answers. The not knowing is painful.

        Wish I could be more encouraging to you. But I’m still going to try!!

        Tom

      5. Let me start by saying I appreciate this exchange of thoughts. One of the worst parts of all this is that so many in the church either can’t handle the idea that someone’s relationship with God isn’t perfect, or they can’t handle it when their pat answers don’t solve my problems. So they prefer to just ignore it and pull away.

        As for free will, let me use a different analogy. If as a parent I know that my young child is going to ride their tricycle into the middle of the highway and don’t do anything to prevent it, how do I justify that? I know what will happen, I know the deadly consequences, but hey, they have free will. As you say, “I didn’t cause it”. I warned him. I lectured him. But hey, I didn’t cause it and the kid has free will, so I’m absolved of responsibility? Yeah, try making that in a court argument.

        Why is it seen as absolutely outside God’s character to hate? Doesn’t that limit God, a God who is without limits? And it seems to me that there are a least a couple of instances where God directly says He hates something. And who needs to “hate” when you allow someone you love, maybe more than any other person on Earth, one He Himself calls a man without fault, to suffer just to proof a point to Satan? Of course I’m talking about Job and I personally consider that the most immoral act in the entire Bible. It’s despicable and, I’m sorry, but cannot be justified for any reason.

        I appreciate the fact your committing to pray for me. However, I have dozens of people who have been praying for me, some for decades, and they haven’t been successful either. God’s purpose for me seems to be sort of like Job, to make me suffer as some sort of message to others that “I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, without explanation” and your going to like it, and praise me for it, and worship me for it, or this could be you too! Clearly, He does NOT understand me or He would know that will never work to “bring me back” because I will never allow that to be successful because it’s a repugnant attitude and way of conducting yourself as God.

        You have much higher esteem for the character of God than I do. I believe IN Him, but I don’t believe He is who He says He is. Talk is cheap. Text is cheap. Sermons are cheap. What really matters is what you do. If I beat my kids day in day out and allow them to be abused by others, and turn around and tell them I love them, would you believe it? I’d be thrown in prison, but God, because He is God can do it without repercussions? Sorry, even God has to be held accountable for His actions. The only way I can hold Him accountable is to challenge Him and refuse to praise and worship behaviors that aren’t worthy of praise and worship.

    2. Hi Jeff, I’ve been reading your comments on here and I must first ask, because I try to never assume. Have you been born again by God’s Holy Spirit? (Not water baptism)

      -Heather

    3. Hi Jeff, I’ve been reading your comments, and I must ask because I try to not assume. Have you been born again by God’s Holy Spirit? Not water baptism. Thanks, Heather

      1. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        Yes, I was. My reward was that life got even worse.

    4. I wrote a longer response and it didn’t go through. Very frustrating. Anyway, Hebrews says when we come to God we must believe that He is AND that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. If we believe lies about God, we must repent. Psalm 138:2 says God puts his word above his name! God cares more about His word than you or I. Pray his word and promises back to God. Stand on them. KEEP seeking. KEEP asking. KEEP knocking. Don’t give up. Be like the persistent widow with the unrighteous judge. You”ve prayed for balance, but where is that in God’s word? Did Paul have balance when he suffered beatings, jail, being shipwrecked, nearly torn apart by a mob? Many of us have experienced the agonizing trial of things getting worse when we pray. It’s because of the spiritual warfare. Satan comes against us to try to get us to give up and stop trusting God. God will use such trials to refine us and strengthen us if we let Him. Seek the Lord and ask if you need to repent of anything. Renew your mind after Christ, not after the ways of the world. Yes, we deserve hell because we’ve all sinned. God created man perfect. But through man’s free will, he disobeyed God and sin entered the world. Rember what Jesus did for you, what he went through for you so you would not have to suffer for all of eternity. Ask God to show you things from his perspective. 

      1. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        You don’t think I’ve done those things? For over 40 years I’ve ask God to show me things. Not a peep! At some point you just have to come to grips with the FACT that God isn’t on your side. Remember, it was God who hardened Pharoah’s heart. Pharaoh wanted to let the Jews go, but God intervened and prevented it. Evidently, this is just what God wants from me. Some are blessed and some are cursed and it’s all at the whim of God. So, you go on preaching. His word has no meaning without action on HIS part. I can tell my children all I want how much I love them, but if everyday I beat the crap out of them or stood by and watched someone else beat the crap out of them, why would I expect them to believe me? God can make all the promises He wants, but His track record makes those promises meaningless because there is nothing to build upon to believe those promises are meaningful. Over 40 years is WAY past long enough to wait. And don’t respond with platitudes about how long others waited. I don’t care. The ONLY thing that God can do to fix this is to DO. At this point the only acceptable response from God is NOT His word, NOT prayer, NOT tired old platitude sermons from someone on the internet, it is ACTION. Either He does what I need done, or He can just go away. Oh, wait, He already left me long ago.

      2. God has not left you. He will never leave nor forsake. God is no liar.

        You seem determined to believe what you want so this will be my last response.

        Yes, God did harden pharoah’s heart but only after pharoah hardened his own heart a few times.

      3. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        I believe what I believe because it is what I have experienced. I would love to think differently, but that’s not possible when God hears the same prayers for 45 years but doesn’t answer a single one. And people only say God isn’t a liar because He says so, not because they can prove it. As for being “with me”, all I can say is that being “with” is far different than being “present”. And God is not present in my life, regardless of “where” He is. And it is being present and showing Himself in obvious ways that can’t be missed that is required if He desires a better relationship with me. I’m not angry at you, it’s just that you offer the same worn answers that have never worked for me. The church as a whole doesn’t deal well with people whose experience with God isn’t magnificient or raise serious questions. I’m not sure, but I think they feel as if it will threaten the foundation of their own faith, makes them really uncomfortable, or believe that prayer is the answer for everything. But prayer MUST be accompanied by action and that includes God.

      4. I know I said it would be my last response but I don’t want to end on that note. I apologize.

        I was in a similar situation as you as a young Christian. That story is way too long to get into but suffice it to say that satan got me to believe lies about God. Including that He had left me. Believing lies about God gave satan a foothold that nearly destroyed me. I lost my job, almost my marriage and nearly my sanity. Basically I believed that God had abandoned me and had given me fear. I was at the end of my rope. But I finally realized I had a choice: Believe God or not believe God. This is free will. It’s the same choice Adam and Eve faced. We walk by faith not by sight.

        So I started saying Let God be true and every man, including me, a liar. I spent days on the floor sobbing and crying out. Eventually God got ahold of me and convicted me very powerfully of the lies I had believed about Him. This lead to the most cathartic wailing of my life. I literally understood biblical wailing because I was doing it. Possibly for hours. But by the end I was spent and Jesus began giving me His peace. I had repented of the lies and it was incredibly freeing. I still had a very long journey ahead but God continued to work with me. He lead me through prayer and fasting for deliverance.

        I share all this because what we believe about God is so important.

        I don’t know what you pray about but if we pray according to His will he hears us.

        Start thanking God. Start with your life. The breath in your lungs. Eternity. The new body you will receive. Saved from hell. Literally everything we have is because of God and we deserve nothing. Only pride prevents us from not believing that. I did pray for you last night. I truly pray you will draw near to God.

      5. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        I appreciate your apology, though it was unnecessary.

        You speak about losing your job, nearly losing your marriage and nearly your sanity. Well I lost my job, lost my marriage, and twice lost my sanity…..all AFTER I accepted Jesus.

        And I will argue free will with anyone. To have true free will, we have to have the ability to surprise God. But He knows everything from beginning to end, so the story is already written. He knows before we are even born EXACTLY what choices and decisions we will make. So, since it’s already established, free will is an illusion used by God to absolve Him of responsibility.

        Think about it: he knows every woman who will be raped (and when), who will be murdered (and by whom), who will suffer mental illness, who will experience joy and who will experience lifelong sorrow, etc. And He ALLOWS it. None of those things is OUR choice, they’re His.

        And how do we pray His will if He NEVER explains His will? I’ve NEVER prayed for wealth (though most of my family is wealthy). I’ve never prayed for fame (though my dad is known around the world). All I’ve ever prayed for is consistent balance between happiness and pain (I have no clue what joy is), healing from debilitating depression (45 years and still going), and basic financial and career stability (never happened). I did pray for God to turn my wife’s heart away from divorce, which He rejected (the irony being she is the one who brought me to Christ). And I prayed that He would feel my pain as deeply as I do and be so moved by that pain that He would do ANYTHING to bring relief to “His child”.

        And I don’t understand why “we deserve nothing”. Why? I didn’t have a choice to be born. Shouldn’t there be compensation of some sort for FORCING me to participate in a life I have no interest in? You make a false assumption that I’m glad I’m alive, that I have breath in my lungs or that I trust God’s “promise” on eternity. You’d be wrong. Had He asked me before birth, I would not have said no, I’d have said HELL NO. a

        I will start thanking God WHEN He gives me reason to thank Him. I gave Him my trust without question when I was born again. He destroyed that trust. Once you lose my trust, it’s up to you to earn it back….and that includes God.

        And while I appreciate your prayers, I will not get my hopes up. I’ve had people praying for me (in agreement, right?) for decades. And God doesn’t listen to them either. So I hold no confidence that yours will be the prayers that suddenly motivate Him. It is HE who needs to draw close to me, not the other way around. I’ve done all I can or am willing to do. Forty-five years has drained all my resources and I have nothing left to make the kind of effort you want me to exhibit. I’m done, there is nothing left. If that doesn’t inspire Him to bring changes, then there is nothing in the universe that can.

        I’m sorry if it feels like I’m angry at you. I’m not. But these discussions are the only outlet I have since God clearly isn’t hearing me, definitely isn’t actually listening, and undeniably doesn’t care one way or the other about what happens to me.

        Thanks for listening.

      6. God is hearing you. It’s why some of us are responding and others praying. It’s the Holy Spirit that cares and works in us to care for each other as brethren.

        God already understands how you feel. Jesus was tempted in every way we are yet without sin. Jesus did miracles and got spit on and blasphemed. He was mocked on the cross. Betrayed by Judas, someone close to Him.

        Jesus never married or had children in the flesh. He gave that up for us. To do the Father’s will, not his own will.

        Do parents ask their children for permission to have them?

        Yes God knows all. But that’s different from forcing people to do things. We don’t have all the answers. We don’t know people’s hearts. Only God does. God tempts no one to sin. There is no darkness in Him.

        I can’t find scripture to stand on about praying for balance. It’s not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Not picking on you just being honest.

        We learn God’s will by being in the word, studying and seeking wisdom.

        Here are prayers according to His word and will:

        1. Not my will by thy will be done
        2. Increase my faith
        3. Help me renew my mind
        4. Make me wise as a serpent but innocent as a dove
        5. Please grow all the fruits of the Holy Spirit in my
        6. Salvation prayers
        7. Help me pick up my cross daily
        8. Help me fulfill the 2 greatest commandments
        9. Help me live by the Spirit not the flesh
        10. Help me abide
        11. Teach me your word
        12. Give me wisdom from above
        13. Bring faithful Christians into my life
        14. Lead me to a biblically sound church
        15. Give me a servant’s heart
        16. Prosper my soul
        17. Get justice for me from what the locust has stolen
        18. Help me speak truth in love
        19. Teach me your paths
        20. Uphold me by your righteous right hand
        21. Strengthen me during trials
        22. Make my faith come forth as gold
        23. Help me hear your leading
        24. Give me discernment
      7. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        I appreciate it, but as I said, I’ve prayed all those things and I’m all prayed out. It bears no fruit. And just because others are praying for me is not a sign that God is hearing what I say. It’s just them doing what they feel compelled to do as part of their faith (and I’m thankful they’re trying).

        But at this point, this really is personal between me and God. We aren’t in junior high where you run to the friend of the girl you like to see if they like you, etc. etc. etc. This is supposed to be a mature relationship. I’m no longer looking for intermediaries, I’m looking to look God straight in the eyes and get some explanations and generate real change. And unless He decides this is as painful to Him as it is to me and is worth doing ANYTHING to fix it, we aren’t going to make any progress.

        Call me stubborn (I am), but who created me that way and KNEW eons ago that this would be my exact position? As I said, this is on God now.

        Again, thanks for your efforts, but I’m not sure you really understand (despite your experiences) what I’m saying or where I’m at. And this is not meant to be mean, though it may sound that way, but most of the people who try to direct me to the thing that work for them generally aren’t actually listening (they’re hearing, which is different) and trying too hard to instruct, believing I’m looking for some great wisdom or solution they possess when I’m way beyond that. I just want to be heard. Only God can fix this and He clearly doesn’t want to.

        Please don’t mistake my resistance or reticence for lack of appreciation of your efforts. It’s just that you don’t have the ability to fix this. The Bible doesn’t have the ability to fix this. No sermon has the ability to fix this. Only God’s direct interaction can fix this.

  5. Hey Jeff!

    Like you, I appreciate the conversation! I wasn’t always a pastor; I came to it later in life. I was out of the church for 25 years because of all the hypocrisy I saw growing up. Like someone once said, I love Jesus but Christians I can do without! Unfortunately the church has become a place where conformity is king. Personally, I like the messy stuff hence the ministry Heavy, Deep and Real. What you are experiencing is REAL and honestly not different than a lot of people I walk with. I’m a guy that understand that stuff; I don’t shy away from it; I actually lean into it. Your thoughts on God have no bearing on our friendship!

    That said, you’re right, I have a higher esteem for God than you may. The reason I say it would be against His character to hate you is your are His creation, made in His image, with His breath of life in you. It would be like you hating one of your kids. Now, you may not be happy with the kid; the kid may make you want to stick a pencil in your eye at times! But you never hate them no matter how crazy they make you. God’s the same way with you!

    Have you ever read C.S. Lewis’ book The Problem of Pain? If not it may be something to look into. You may not agree with him but Lewis is an interesting guy in that he was a staunch atheist who came to the conclusion he was wrong and then became a great apologist. If you’d like, I can send you a copy – here’s my email to send your address privately: heavydeepreal@gmail.com.

    Yeah, I also get that everyone is praying for you and it’s not working…as far as you know! But realize the good part of this prayer thing: People pray for you because they care for you so you must have a bunch of folks that love you, care about you, and want the best for you. That, my friend, is a good thing!

    Be blessed today –

    Tom

    1. I’m impressed by your effort. My stubborness turns off most people. When I believe I’m right, I’m hard to sway. I wonder who made me that way?

      As for the hate issue, many parents claim to love their children but treat them with absolute hatred. You can say anything you want, but as I said, it’s what you do that matters. God can tell me all He wants how much He loves me, but His actions clearly say otherwise. And there are actually parents who hate their children.

      I’ve never read Lewis’ book, but I’ve read dozens of others of the same genre. But if you like you can send me a copy of the book. I’m always open, it just takes more than anyone has had to offer yet to convince me God is a God of good.

      And needing the prayers of dozens of others reminds me a bit of junior high, when you liked a girl but we’re too nervous to talk to her, so you had others do it for you. It’s actually pathetic. And that’s kind of how I see God’s lack of communication with me. He wants me to listen to everyone else and believe He cares, but He can’t bring Himself to do it directly. Except He’s not listening to them either. And that’s pathetic, not Godly.

      1. Hi Jeff,
        I know this is over a year later but I do hope you get this message. You sure do blame God for a lot. I am going to be a little more hard hitting than the pastor here. You obviously are painting the picture that you were acting like the perfect saint waiting for God to hold up to His end of the bargain. Maybe you were. I don’t know you. Yet it seems to me you have expectations that God won’t let bad things happen to you. To which I must laugh. Where was he? He was right beside you waiting for you to trust him no matter what. He was waiting for you to tell the true ass-hat…Satan to go take a flying leap off a short pier. He was waiting for you to realize that he was indeed trying to break you. But not out of hate. Out of love. Because for some reason, you are holding on to a lot of anger. Not just to him but to others. You are holding on to the notion that works will get God to bend to your will. But when have you bent to God’s will and chosen to trust him DESPITE the circumstances you saw in your life? When have you chosen to trust that there really is a good, loving reason for God to let you go through all this? That maybe, just maybe he is trying to grow your character? Have you considered that he is waiting for you? He is waiting for you to choose to do good…yes…God’s will? Regardless of the evil being done to you? That He is waiting for you to love Him for Him…not for what he can He could\should\will do for you? He wants a relationship with you. But he wants you to love him for HIM. Not out of obligation. Not because you can get something from Him. Yes! He let these things happen to you. GET OVER IT! I am saying this with all the love in my heart. Because God has a VERY good reason why. And He doesn’t answer to you. BuT He will walk with you if you let it. He will meet you where you are at. But not until you open your hard heart and let him speak. You see:He WAS speaking… but YOU were NOT listening. So please stop letting your ego tell you its all about you. Tell Satan to go jump off a pier. He is dictating your anger. Stop listening to him. THAT is what God is waiting for.

      2. You’re right about one thing: I am angry at God. But, no, I have never expected a perfect life or to get through with no problems. And I have never considered myself a saint, not by a long shot. All I’ve prayed for is some BALANCE. And I have NEVER said it’s all about me. In fact, I have the same feelings watching others suffer. He had the absolute authority to create a world without it, and chose not too. That was His choicee, not mine.

        I spent years telling Satan to get away. But apparently, God wasn’t willing to stand in WITH me. If He was “right beside” me, so what? It doesn’t matter if He’s beside me if He sits there and watches me get my *** kicked, now does it?

        I had trust in God at one point. But then He allowed things that not only were hurtful, but they literally destroyed the person I was. I am not nearly as good a person now as I used to be. I spent most of my life doing for others with little concern for myself and without seeking recognition. I understand works aren’t an important thing. And my philosophy is I’ll trust anybody at first glance since I have no reason not to. However, if you lose my trust through your actions or inaction, then it is YOUR responsbility to earn that trust back. God treated me in ways that caused me to not trust Him anymore. That’s on Him, so it’s HIS responsiblity to earn that trust back. And circumstances matter! I’m tired of hearing how “suffering” can lead to growth and improvement. I’ve never had anything even remotely resembling a positive outcome from suffering. It has always destroyed me. So glad He’s on my side! And as for His “will” for my life? He’s NEVER bothered to share even a single piece of information about what that is. So how am I supposed to pursue it?

        Nothing in my life indicates that God loves me. If He does, can He love me a little less? He’s the one who hardened my heart. He did that to Pharoah if you remember. Pharaoh wanted to do the right thing but it was GOD who made Him continue to defy Him. And God is good? Seriously? Have you looked at what He allows in this world? He has ABSOLUTE authority over everything and is the creator of EVERYTHING, good and bad. He doesn’t get to take credit for the good, but not for the bad.

        I even believed some of what you say about God’s purpose and all that stuff. No more. There is NO benefit to allowing what He’s allowed in my life. The only thing it’s done is drive me AWAY from Him.

        We didn’t have a choice to be born, yet we’re the one’s to blame for everything? He knows every single second of eternity before it ever happened. He knew exactly what was going to happen to me before He created me. What does that say about His character? If as a parent I know my toddler is going to walk out on to the highway and do nothing to prevent it? I’d be in prison. Yet, because He’s God He gets a free pass? Had I been given a choice, I would have declined the offer to live on Earth. Why should I suffer for His choice?

        As for God not answering to me? Fine, that’s probably true. But I’m the one that has to live this miserable life….and I get no say in the matter? Everyone keeps saying He has a purpose, even for the evil. Sorry, not buying. Unless His purpose was to drive me away (which He did at least a couple of times in the Bible), He has utterly failed because I have no more interest in anything He may want, because EVERYTHING has brought pain and suffering. If He was human, not only would I not be friends with Him, I might punch Him in the nose.

        You seem to think God is waiting for me. Maybe, maybe not. But wouldn’t He have known for eternity that I would never respond positively to the amount of suffering He allowed? It’s just ridiculous. If He’s waiting, He’ll be waiting forever, unless He wants to make at least some improvements in how He treats me. So, not to be rude, but your self-rightesousness and “love” just don’t really mean much.

      3. Jeff, i know that it has been several years since you have added your thoughts here, but I can not help but feel a great kinship to you. I’m not one who does well at explaining my thoughts about my personal feelings. When I read your posts I thought to myself, this guy knows exactly how you’re feeling & why. I was just wondering if you were able to find the sense of peace you were longing for ? Are you able to trust again ? Has your life become more than just merely existing ? 

      4. Jeffrey Scott Avatar
        Jeffrey Scott

        I wish I could say yes. But I’d be lying. Nothing has really changed. In fact, this week was a microcosm of my life for the last 47 years. God never has anything to say and nothing ever changes in what He puts in my life. I’m as dissapointed and frustrated with Him as I ever was, maybe more. The only “peace” I’ve come to is the realization that God has no plan for me to prosper or have peace. It’s like He’s using me as an example of what He can do to a person if He chooses. I’m not Job by any stretch, but it’s the same principle, that God just sees us as playthings to use and abuse as He wishes.

      5. Hi Jeff, OK thank you for responding. Things can get worse at times because satan attacks us. Here are critical questions:

        Are you in the word reguarly?

        Do you know who you are in Christ?

        Are you taking thoughts captive and tearing down strongholds with the word of God?

      6. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        For over a decade after I was born again I was diligent and did all those things. And it just got worse and worse. The word doesn’t matter anymore because I don’t care what He says, I care only about what He does. And what He does for me is NO help. The more I prayed, the worse it got. There were times I felt like praying for the opposite of what I really wanted because it seemed like I always got the opposite of what I prayed for. And don’t talk to me about it being Satan….NOTHING, Absolutely NOTHING happens without God’s knowledge (for all eternity) or His approval. If He really wanted things to be better for me, they would be. Clearly He doesn’t want things to be better for me. He clearly doesn’t really know me since He had to know the instant He created me that I would NEVER move closer to Him under those worsening conditions. If He wants me “back”, it’s on Him now.

      7. Jillian Rose Houston Avatar
        Jillian Rose Houston

        Hello Jeff. I can really relate to that feeling of lost willpower to re-generate and devote faith to a God that promises close-ness, sovereignty, compassion, justice, and plans for good and not for harm when we can only look at an accounting of harm. I held what felt like a close-to-spotless record for the majority of my life, leaving me feeling entitled to more blatantly obvious effort on God’s part. I wanted to see something supernatural because everything natural was telling me I was a fool for faith. When I was completely and utterly devastated, betrayed, and persecuted in all the worst ways by a weak minded and malevolent abuser, I met my unraveling. I looked at my shipwrecked life, knowing I had done nothing to sink a ship and it’s not in my nature to not take accountability. It is simply exhausting to take accountability in perpetuity without others taking accountability for their complicit influences. I reached a point of pure annoyance. I had given God every obedience until I reached a point where I had lost my marriage, children, and entire support system. I was looked upon as if I were a leper in a small town I can’t escape despite making Godly choices at every turn. I told God I didn’t owe him anything anymore. I had my list of things “I politely declined every house party as a teenager and never got into trouble!” “I withstood all the pressure and stayed a virgin until my wedding day!” “I was so understanding, submissive, affectionate and faithful every single day to my husband without ceasing!” I was that girl who was asking if everyone else in the room was okay or needed anything while I was in labour and childbirth. I can say with pure honesty, that I USED to, be SUCH a sweetheart. So why did I find myself robbed of every material possession and every other good thing, all at once? Why could I only look back at a life of deprivation? I told God it was his responsibility to prove himself, to make me respect him again. I lived my life with weakness for a few years. I had some one night stands and I tried some drugs. I lost my filter and the grace I had for my ex husband and I exposed exposed exposed his abuses to the world through social media. I wrote articles warning others that this kind of thing happens and could happen to them too! I became emotionally dis-regulated to the point of feeling suicidal for the first time ever, and many times since. I spit in my bible, reading the book of Job, and threw it across my living room in anger, offended by the “replacement children” being touted as justice and blessing, as if Job’s first lost family didn’t matter. As if the horrors of the past could be excused simply by future blessings. What happened to Job was God’s fault for allowing it to happen. I couldn’t deny God’s spirit entirely, because it had met with me clearly (once) before within my lifetime of devout christianity. I couldn’t doubt the gifting and mission that God gave to me, because he gave it to me without any of it coming from my own generation or source. So I knew what I had to do (screenwriting and film production) and I knew I had to heal this relationship (eventually), but my mind was battling with desires to murder my ex, my mind was filled with hypothetical conversations of my enemies shamefully gossiping and spreading lies. I was watching a woman who was HORRIBLE to me, HORRIBLE, take care of my kids (like the step-mom treated cinderella, compared to her own kids) whilst also alienating me. What ate at me every day was the lack of justice. It haunted me. I’m writing this comment because it has been 8 years since then and I have still not gotten justice. That woman is still horrible to me. My ex had me unhomed for the 8 or 9th time. I still buy my kid’s necessities but he withholds child support, even as a millionaire, while I watched texts flow in to witness my kids open thousands of dollars worth of presents this Christmas and I am not sure if I can make my $700 rent payment for the shack where my mattress sits on the floor of my entry way. It’s not fair. I have bought and renovated so many large properties. I have worked so hard and never been paid for it. All my ex husband does it reset me to zero and convince our community that I am the zero and he is the hero. My only way of evening the scales is to take time to write online comments or watch tv shows to pay myself back this way rather than use 100% of my time to work, work, work, work, work, and potentially be stolen from again. He tried to pass off a $30,000 bill a few months ago. I don’t go more than a month or two without some sort of grand financial assault, just added to the list on my terrible credit score. He has used my social insurance number to rack up debt that keeps me from being able to have a credit card or lease a car. I lost over 300 connections because people didn’t want to listen to me complain. I have been labelled crazy. The kids at the school hear from the step-mom’s daughters (who have never spent so much as 5 minutes around me) that I am *really messed up* because of how the adults talk about me. I’m seen as a pitiful mental patient. But I have every bit of sober mindedness, good intent, good conduct, and foresight. It’s not fair. I am legally blind and had to live 2 years without the contact lenses that gave me sight. Now that I finally have a good contact lens in one eye (couldn’t afford both eyes!) it’s easy to forget about how much pain my eyes were in every day when trying to wear a broken one (and mine are glass because the prescription is over +25). The past is easy to let go of once the present is finally okay and the future is hopeful. It’s only hard to draw close to God when it feels like he doesn’t deserve it. What I can no longer do, is reject God based on my own logic. And I am a lady who got a perfect score on an LSAT the first time I ever took one, so that should tell you that I am someone who is good at logistics because the whole exam is just logical problems to solve. The root of the issue for you is the same as it was for me. I didn’t KNOW God’s identity, I only knew words the bible used to describe it. I only knew the arguments that came to my heart and mind. I only knew what I was sacrificing, and seemingly without reward. Something that helped me get to know WHO God is, was the combination of 2 books, each which could not be so validly exhibited and proven insanely true without the other. Both could just be theory if they existed on their own, but together, along with observing the world through observing human verbiage and behaviour as it relates to this stuff, is what truly made me realize that God made us all like a 7 sided dice, whereby the top face most correlates to who we truly are, christian or not, and God holds the values of all 7 sides. So these books would be “Discover your God given gifts/Discover your children’s gifts” by Don and Katie Fortune, (a husband/wife duo who counselled in a church and spoke about the motivational gifts given to us by God in our mother’s wombs, and how those gifts present themselves with and without God. These are referenced in Roman’s 12.) and the other book was “The seven basic plots” by Christopher Booker, who studied every form of story for over 25 years and came to find they could all be sorted into 7 basic stories. These 7 stories are (unintentionally?) representative of how history repeats itself for people with each of the 7 gifting types. I could see very very easily through your comments that you have the gift of the Perceiver, and it is always the Perceivers that God allows the hardest, persecutory and most brutal long-suffering trials for. Perceivers live a big chunk of their life feeling misunderstood and rejected. The most essential and powerful remedy for the Perceiver is prayer. Perceivers actually have a lot more prayer-power than the other gift types. Your capability to affect spiritual warfare is strong. Stubbornness is a major obstruction to living their best life. If you can’t have a lot of hope in the Lord, start with a little. Let it grow. Surround yourself with people who speak blessing into your life. That is important. It might feel juvenile to let a community get involved, but it is necessary for them to wrap their arms around you, and that is what you need. You need nurturing so badly, don’t you? And to be enveloped in softness… The showdown between you and God isn’t solved by you or God. There is a letting go, and letting others love you that needs to happen. At a certain point, you can only be restored to wholeness when you allow yourself to open up to concerns for the harder hardships of others and let compassion whisper in your ear “these people need you”. All the best to you, sir. The gavel hasn’t come down for you yet. ❤

      8. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        I appreciate your comments and find your comments about being a “perceiver” interesting. You advise me to start with “a little hope”, but there’s none left there to build upon. Nearly 50 years has emptied the tank completely. And I long ago tried to get my community involved in helping me, but all that resulted in was a gazillion unanswered prayers for other people. And this isn’t about who has greater hardships, I KNOW that others have had it worse. But who cares, that just means we’ve all been abused by God. The “degree” to which some of us have suffered is immaterial after it reaches a certain level. This isn’t a contest on who has it worse, it’s a revelation that many of us are unfairly and unceasingly suffering and God won’t even explain why, let alone do the right thing and fix it. Suffering is suffering regardless of how bad it is. I still have empathy and compassion for others and do things that nobody else even knows I do to help others. But I do that because of my personal moral convictions, not out of any respect or allegaince to God. And I completely disagree that “the showdown isn’t solved by me or God”. ONLY God can solve this. But He refuses to do the ONLY thing that would even have a chance of me returning to Him. It is ALL on Him. And the “brutal, long suffering trials” He has “blessed” me with mean that I will NEVER do anything for Him. He won’t work for me, I won’t work for Him. It’s pretty freaking simple, but evidently God isn’t smart enough to realize that simple truth.

  6. Steven Avatar
    Steven

    Jeff, I agree with you. To blame “free will” is a cop out and we also know that throughout history God has overridden man’s free will on a thousands of occasions so that dog won’t hunt. God is responsible for the good and bad. Isaiah 45:7 is very clear. “I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the Lord, do all this.”
    ‭‭
    For some God blesses them abundantly…think Abraham. Others God neglects and then dismisses your pain by the “my ways are not your ways…” excuse.

    The bottom line is God says in Jeremiah 32:37 ““I am the Lord, the God of every person on the earth. Nothing is impossible for me.” That means that if God was willing He could make your circumstances better and still accomplish His plans. He’s God He can do anything. Therefore the only thing we can conclude is our pain, grief, sorrow, suffering, and hardships are of no importance to Him. God can’t have it both ways…to say He can do anything and then say well Jeff and Steve this is the “only way “ I can accomplish my will. That would mean God is limited and we know that is not the case. How can any pastor reconcile these facts? If they’re honest they will admit they have no answers.

    It’s like taking a trip cross country. You can fly first class in the lap of luxury, you can drive, you can take a bus, or you can walk. Each method gets us to the same place, but we all can agree one method is superior to all. Some people God flys first class. Others God forces to walk and then He breaks your leg half way through the trip and then says don’t grumble or complain and don’t ask why Joe and Sue were given the first class flight. Now you’re being covetous. Pastors also try and excuse the different levels of blessings by saying oh but He’s with you in your difficult journey. If He refuses to act then His presence if meaningless. For example if you and I were walking together and you were jumped by 5 thugs and you cry out to me for help and instead of helping I choose to say…oh I’m with you buddy…I will never leave your or forsake you….You’re too ignorant to understand my mighty plans and mysterious ways so suck it up and take the beating. You would question whether our friendship is legitimate. A true friend would rescue you.

    And for the record God has destroyed me. If I made a list of all the terrible things He has done you probably wouldn’t even believe everything. And it’s not my circumstances…it’s how God has acted in my circumstances. I look back and see nothing but neglect and indifference. No one can deny it.

    1. Steven!

      Thanks for your note. I’ve been corresponding with Jeff privately and would like to do so with you as well – send me an email to heavydeepreal@gmail.com if you’d like to continue this conversation!

      Tom

  7. tholin Avatar
    tholin

    If God allows suffering caused by physical sickness and defects, He is ultimately responsible for it. If you stand on the sideline and do nothing when you could have intervened, you’re still guilty.

  8. tholin Avatar
    tholin

    When God allows suffering in the form of sickness, physical and genetic defects, he is ultimately responsible for it. I didn’t cause my defects, and I cannot believe it is my own fault because of Adam’s disobedience way back when. How is it fair or just that one man’s sin affects the whole human race?

    Can I trust, pray to, worship, obey and serve a God who only brings me suffering? I don’t know, but I feel like I’m better off on my own!

    1. It’s not just one man’s sin. It’s all of our sins.

      Here is the hard, painful truth: God doesn’t owe us anything. The only thing we deserve is hell. Everything good we receive from God is from His grace and mercy. If you can rest in that truth you will find a lot of freedom.

      1. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        I’m sorry, I don’t buy that “the only thing we deserve is Hell”. HE CREATED US. If we are imperfect or sinful, it’s because that’s how He CHOSE to create us. If I create a clay pot with a hole in it and it leaks, is it the pot’s fault? No. He created us imperfect and sinful and we get the blame? Sorry, God has the sole responsibility for how we were created, we had no input into that. And God does NOT get to take credit without accepting responsibility for the bad. That’s not how things work. He created EVERYTHING, including Satan and evil. If He didn’t want those to exist, they wouldn’t. He has the absolute ability to change our circumstances or change his “creative plan” and chooses not to. That’s not our fault, it’s His.

  9. I needed to hear this today. I have a chronic illness and a beloved child who is struggling with infertility, and these things are just the tip of the iceberg in my life right now. I have always loved and trusted God, but lately, I am struggling with the trust and I am angry with God that He would allow this. Thank you for telling me to get over myself….that tough love is necessary and very much appreciated. Just what I needed to hear, and I thank God also, for bringing me right here, to read it.
    Blessings, Brother.

    1. Hey Sue!

      Sorry it’s a rough patch for you. Let me know if you need to talk or just vent!

      Tom

  10. P.S…. I just ordered your book.

  11. I guess you never read the Book of Job. God instigated that event with Satan. Had nothing to do with individual choice. And God indeed was responsible.

  12. Actually, I’ve written pretty extensively about Job. Don’t remember what I called those blogs or sermons but if you’re interested, I’m sure you can find them on the site.

  13. I stumbled on this website while googling how to trust in God again when one has lost faith.

    Please remove this dumb waste-of-time blog that’s supposed to be “heavy deep real”.

    You’re out here telling desperate people who are sad and depressed and looking for help, to stop being a brat? And then when people leave you comments saying your write up lacks feelings, you get all defensive and lost all the horrible things you have had to endure – and still do not address the fact that you are calling people brats for losing their faith.

    I’ve contemplated suicide at least 4 times just tonight alone, and people like you make me sick. Thi article doesn’t help anyone looking for an answer.

    1. Not sure your name but sorry you found my blog unhelpful. However, it wasn’t written for someone in your situation. Your situation is quite desperate. If you are suicidal you need to call the suicide hotline at 9-8-8 or go to the emergency room. When you feel hopeless, not much a guy like me writes is going to make much of a difference. What you need in those moments is real relationship with a live person talking with you about how you feel and working with you in partnership to get through the crisis.

      Your note said that you thought about suicide 4 times that night. I suspect (could be wrong) that this isn’t the first time you’ve felt that way.

      Christians feel suicidal just like non-Christians. There is no magic wand on this kind of thing. The difference is as Christians we have a God that is bigger than us, has plans for us, and wants us alive on this earth to do what He created us to do. In other words, there is purpose…even to the pain you feel.

      If you have deep depression spirals that lead you to thinking about suicide then you may want to consider therapy that helps you stop the spirals before they get to that point.

      If you want to talk just let me know!

  14. What about those that God doesn’t bring us through our trials, He leaves us in them and they one get worse? Those of us who God never helped, God only worked thing out even worse than before we went to Him? Those of us who God has rejected in eve way? Ever prayer? I can’t think of one thing or one time where what I trusted God with didn’t turn out worse than I could ever imagine? In every aspect of my life, it’s been a living Hell turning to God for 40 plus years. How can you ever trust the one who only wants your worst nightmare for you?

    1. Ann –

      I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences. If you want to talk more about it send me an email at heavydeepreal@gmail.com and we can do a deeper dive.

      Tom

  15. Marc Wheeler Avatar
    Marc Wheeler

    I appreciate your time and thoughts on this very much. I’m fairly recently lost my trust in God and need a pretty clear outline like this and a little bit of tough love. My situation is more around disease and accidents causing death. It started 5 years ago when my suicidal daughter’s first born child died after 4 days, full term. Then a year and a half ago, I lost my daughter to suicide after 13+ years of her battle with severe depression and other mental illness. I’m not angry at my daughter for her choice after seeing and reading her daily torture and the lack of help the health system can give to more advanced illnesses. I am angry at disease in this decaying world for the shear trauma and prolonged misery this life and world can produce. I need to have deeper understanding and feelings for what The Fall really was. We also had our father, and our brother die (both from accidents) within a year and a half after our daughter. At least there was no suffering with accidents, but the suffering I see of a widow and teenage daughters who loved him so deeply is so heartbreaking for me. We also have a friend, who is such a light and help to the world, and is the mother of four home-aged children dying from cancer pretty quickly. And more. Somehow this life is so much harder to swallow when it hits so close to home. With all of this, I haven’t been able to pray for a year and a half now.

    I realize God has been easy to blame. But shouldn’t he be? If not Him who? If not Him, it sometimes seems easier to believe this life was just an accidental biological phenomenon and we are just like ants who go back to dust. We all know that removing expectations brings happiness. I am struggling with the pre-conceived notions and expectations that I had of God. Even though I knew intellectually he didn’t stop problems generally, when it hits home so close, I thought maybe he could, and would break these rules of earth more often. I believe these came from an overly positive view of God, being all loving and all powerful and helping our lives go bit more smoothly if we believed. I’m trying to understand how biblical these notions are, or how much religious culture influence them. I’m working on unraveling and undoing those preconceived expectations, and removing responsibility from God, as weird as it feels. I’m reading a book called Angry with God, which has been good for my first baby steps back (hopefully) to faith.

    I’d love further discussion and thoughts as I take this journey. wheels.marc@gmail.com

    1. Marc – I’m so sorry for the pain in your life. Just brutal stuff here. Not sure what I’m about to write makes it better but here is my understanding that helps me get through the pain I’ve faced:

      Scripture tells us that Satan is the prince of this world and as such he hates us. In fact, if you read about Jesus in the desert temptation, Satan tells Him that if He bows down to him that Satan will give Jesus all the kingdoms of the world because “they are mine to give.” Further, we read in Daniel that God sent a messenger angel to answer Daniel’s pray but that angel was stopped by the “Prince of Persia” and the Arch Angel Michael had to come do battle with that demon angel in order for God’s messenger angel to get to Daniel. All the (and more) shows that our world is truly hell on earth.

      Someone once explained the Bible as a book of trauma. I liked that – every story seems to have a traumatic episode: death, betrayal, rape, incest, torture, slavery, imprisonment, beatings, and more. Why so much trauma? Because we live in enemy territory! The Earth is not ours – we gave that up during the fall. The Earth is Satan’s for however long God allows it. And as such we all suffer the consequences of his ownership.

      Jesus said that He didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. What that means is there had to be a blood sacrifice for sin and we (the fallen) couldn’t offer anything unblemished to reconcile this with God. So, Jesus took the cross for us, reconciled us spiritually with God yet we remain in “this body of death” as Paul calls it until our flesh is reconciled at the second coming. That is why scripture says we sit in the heavenlies with Jesus (spiritually that is our position) while we continue to suffer (for a little while longer) here in the body.

      So, at the end of the day our saving grace is just that – Jesus. We are all immortal and the only question is where we are going to spend our eternity! As believers we spend that eternity with Jesus!! And not because we deserve it but because He loves us so much that He wants to spend eternity with us.

      There are a lot of churches out there that preach love at the expense of the rest of the Gospel. Jesus told us that we would have trouble in this world but to take heart because He has overcome the world. That is why we are to store our treasures in heaven, keep our eyes on heavenly things, and do on Earth as it is in heaven! Heaven is our home, we’re just passing through this satanic world until the new heaven and new earth is formed (Rev. 21 and 22).

      Doesn’t make it any easier, my friend. Losing a grandchild is awful even though we know that all children go to Heaven (let the children come Jesus said). Losing a child to suicide is tragic – yet God always does the right thing and knows that in our fallen state that even our minds can be fallen with mental health issues. And honestly none of it makes sense because God is not really like us – He’s other than us so His ways are completely different than ours. We won’t truly understand until we meet Him face to face. And that sucks.

      Know, though, that you are not alone – I’m sure others have surrounded you and are praying for you. I am too. Hope this makes a little sense.

      Tom

  16. You are so self righteous , you talk down to us who truly have an issue and here you are calling us a brat.

    1. Jerry – not sure I agree with your assessment here. Perhaps you’re just seeing things through your own prism. However, if you think I’m talking down to you, first I apologize and second, perhaps my blog isn’t for you.

    2. jeffs66111 Avatar
      jeffs66111

      That’s overly harsh on him. I’ve been corresponding with him for some time and he has always listened to what I have to say and made every effort to be empathetic. He’s never criticized me for any of my complaints about God. In his effort to help us, he utilizes what he knows, which is his Biblical teachings. I argue almost every point he makes and he continues to work with me. That’s way more than my former church was willing to do.

  17. I see that you truly want to help and your faith is through the roof, im a believer who is down on my faith not in God but what god has in store for me, I no longer pray like I should because I now believe where im at in life is his plan for me and it is heart breaking that this is what he wanted and planned for me and now im supposed to have the right attitude and I don’t, I know that separates me from him and now I just want it to be over, I know that it is wrong to feel this way but I just do and now I fight doing and thinking what I know is right because of my pride and I don’t see a way out now.

    1. Jerry – send me a note at heavydeepreal@gmail.com and we can continue to talk a bit more privately. Interested in knowing more about your situation and how I might be able to add some perspective.

  18. Reno Rob Avatar
    Reno Rob

    Hello, this is my first time on here, searching for hopefully some answers. Myself, I am in a similar scenario to Jeff. I have been a devout Christian for several years, but for the last 7 years, I have been dealing with anger and frustration over work or lack thereof, financial stresses and how this is affecting my family. I have gone from praising God, going to church on a regular basis, tithing above the 10 percent, reading the bible etc.

    My issue for a while has been anger. Sadly having a short fuse has run in the family for a while now. My grandfather had it, my father had it, I have it. Anyway, after going to church, not feeling any kind of growth, praying to God for several years on how to deal with this, praying to this supposed God who loves us. His response has been quite literally nothing. All of this time praying and praising a God who completely shuts me out and gives 0 response at all.

    So I have gone from praising this supposed God, to cursing him out on a daily basis. Asking me to pray about this to him, is a waste of your time for a response. This is no offense to anyone on here, but my belief is our time here is very limited, and supposedly like a blink of an eye in relation to his time. Well if my time is so short here, and he can not spend even a fraction of a nanosecond of his time just to talk to me for some kind of guidance or that he cares at all, then I will not waste my much more limited time on him. 

    I am thoroughly convinced, that he has shut me out for about the last 7 or 8 years and wants absolutely nothing to do with me. Well, the feelings are mutual there God. There you have it.

    1. Good morning! Thank you for your note. Like you, I’ve struggled with anger issues. I grew up in 12 different homes and was abused in a many. I struggle with C-PTSD and there is always an underlying rage I’ve had to learn to manage. It is tough!! Do me a favor – send me an email at heavydeepreal@gmail.com so we can take this conversation private and talk about ideas!!

      Tom

    2. Good morning –

      Just rereading your note here. Let me know if you’d like to talk more about this stuff. You can email me at heavydeepreal@gmail.com

      Tom

  19. Kenneth Gray Avatar
    Kenneth Gray

    Hello,

    I am familiar with the “let go and let God” argument. Give it to God. This is a pointless endeavor. I gave myself to God through Jesus 44+ years ago. In that time I have given many problems to God to be completely ignored. God has never helped me in any way. You can’t trust God to be there for you. How can I trust God with my problems when God has proven that He will NEVER help me? 44+ years is far too long to continue to believe the “lie” that God wants to help us. If God cared even a little bit He would help. 44+ years of nothing but silence, absence, broken promises, and unanswered prayers. This is the torture God inflicts on me daily. How do you trust someone who tortures you? Thanks.

    God bless you through the Holy Spirit, in Jesus holy name, Amen.

    1. Kenneth – I’m so sorry to hear about your pain. If you’d like to talk send me an email at heavydeepreal@gmail.com

      Tom

  20. Hayley Avatar
    Hayley

    I also don’t trust God. I have been a Christian for 11 years and throughout all those 11 years, God has never answered my prayers of healing and many other different prayers. God really shouldn’t expect His children to trust Him if he never responded their children favorably.

    1. Hi Hayley –

      So sorry to hear your struggle with God. My email is heavydeepreal@gmail.com if you want to talk more.

      Tom

  21. T. Gadz Avatar
    T. Gadz

    It’s 2024 and I’m just reading this. The fact that you are going back and forth with hurting feelings really denote why Christians are the most hated religion. It shows the lack of empathy you have and how it’s more important to be right theoretically, than to exercise basic human decency. I was a Christian up until recently when I saw that most Christians are heartless, judgmental, and can never really answer questions without talking religious diatribe around you in circles. I respect a pastor or believer who says “I’m sorry you have had to endure all that you. I can’t answer your questions and can only hope that God will at some point in your life.” You don’t know all the answers! You are a human being, not a deity. This religious dogma actually weakens a person and makes them more inclined to commit suicide. When you already feel like you can do nothing right or good enough for God; or that you can’t even depend on God or his word, you really lose hope. So many Christians have felt this way and it’s been taboo to discuss. Since I stopped depending on God, my mental health has improved. It’s really sad that you don’t see the harm you’re really doing more than good. I believe my that if God is says he is, you will need to answer to him when it’s your time. You are insensitive to say the least. That is YOUR TRUTH. It is not the truth for everyone.

    1. Dear T. Gadz,

      Sorry you’re hurting so badly and it appears that your Christian experience was filled with pain. There are a couple points of your note I would argue with.

      First, there is no such things as “Your Truth” or my truth or anyone else’s truth. There is only God’s truth found in His Word. So, if you find something I wrote that isn’t biblical I would want to know that!! But I’m not sure you’ll find anything in this blog (or my other ones for that matter) that is not in Scripture. Now, I won’t make a circular argument that “scripture says…” because if you don’t believe scripture then it’s a worthless approach. But if you don’t believe scripture then you would naturally come to the conclusion that nobody has the answer, Christians are just full of dogma, and that God isn’t really there for you the way you expect Him to be. However, if you do believe scripture you can’t possibly get to that conclusion.

      Second, yes, there is answer to all our suffering!! We are fallen people in a fallen creation with a sin nature in rebellion to God. What do you expect would be the circumstances of our existence in such a state? Believe in Jesus or not, He was correct when He said that in this world we will have trouble (tribulations). Life is extremely hard – and not just on you. Everyone suffers – we are all broken with a variety of experiences. Have you ever noticed that the Bible is a book of trauma? Every single character is traumatized somehow. It’s the raw truth of the Bible the connects with me so deeply. Given that the cause of our problems is sin then the only answer to our problems is the one who defeated sin – Jesus. I get if you have a different opinion but this isn’t dogma; it’s faith.

      I am in no way insensitive to your pain – you don’t know me but I, too, have suffered and continue to. But I don’t believe our pain is bigger than our God. I don’t believe God causes our pain. And I don’t believe we can demand of God the things we want and then get made at God when He doesn’t do it our way. Just a difference of opinion.

      Again, sorry the article triggered you up so much.

      Tom

  22. “stop being a brat”
    …Wow

    Do you NOT get it.

    1. C –

      A brat??? What don’t I get? Perhaps you should learn a little about my background before you replay. Check out my bio on this site and then see if that changes your perspective.

      Tom

  23. You don’t need to know my name Avatar
    You don’t need to know my name

    i will defend both sides here in the conversation. First, i suffer from CPTSD from horrible crap that a child shouldn’t have to experience. That said, i am angry as hell, because I understand the psychology of a broken mind and that is contrary to the crap spouted off about God loving equally and such. I have cone to grips that I stopped believing in many things many religious people believe. First, I do not believe that God knew exactly what choice we would make, because that lame belief would say that this whole test for gaining a body is complete and utter wasted time and a sick joke for God to sit and watch for entertainment purposes. Yes, he isn’t shocked when we choose the wrong choice, because he knows broken people do broken things, but he hopes we will choose the better choice. So stop using the mindset that he knew what we would do crap. I also believe he allows free agency and that is what we are to do to be like him by doing right by someone, not to tear them down. He gave is books of scriptures in all forms of religion that is based on good of the people, and we have to use that to govern ourselves. I feel too many people love putting everything on god so they don’t have to put forth the work to treat people right and help them not suffer. Now, i am still angry as hell, because the agency of others as a child has broken my brain to function well enough to be successful in this world and no matter how hard i try, it never seems he meets me in the middle to fix what others did. And i am the one spending my life and money to fix what others have broken and probably will the rest of my life and that angers me to no end. So, there you have it.

    1. Thanks for your thoughts, You Don’t Need to Know My Name!

  24. Batteries Not Included Avatar
    Batteries Not Included

    i love how you moderate. If someone posts something that calls out your teachings as incorrect, you delete their post. You also play victim when some have scolded you for calling people suffering at different levels a brat and to just suck it up per se. You twist it as, I didn’t mean to do that, or I think you are looking at it in the wrong prism and so on. Basically saying they are the one that is wrong and screwed up for seeing it how they see it. Talk about a gaslighter! I feel your abuses are coming out in your blog and responses as an abusive gaslighter. You also probably will say you deleted my response today because I did something wrong in some made up ideology to fit your feelings at the time, was it the email address, was it the snarky, you don’t need to know my name? Because I don’t see why you would need a name and such to have open dialogue about experiences and beliefs. But, yeah…. Preachers like you are what makes many people not want anything to do with religion and leave religion. I don’t feel if you cause people to leave because of your way of talking to people or lack of knowledge and can’t see it but your one way that they will be punished like you may be thinking or want to believe, because when people struggle and you help pull the trigger, god is going to hold you just as accountable for taking someone’s foundation that has cracks in it due to life and just coming along and kicking the dirt out from under it causing their house of faith come crashing down.

    but you do you boo and we will see how we are all judged by the creator in the end!

    1. Dear Batteries Not Included – actually all comments are approved…even yours!

    2. jeffs66111 Avatar
      jeffs66111

      You misread the pastor. I’ve argued with him and challenged him on many things. He’s never dismissed my feelings or beliefs, though he is clear about his. And contrary to what you say, so far he has actually kept me from completely walking away, at least so far.

      1. ConnieL Avatar
        ConnieL

        Hi Jeff – I came on here looking for a way to help my daughter to trust God after the death of my husband. She is convinced that God chose not to save him. He died of leukemia. She is very hurt that God chose not to save him. I get it. You wrote in some of your responses about how you’ve suffered while others prospered. Can I ask, who would you give your suffering to? Who would you choose to suffer in your place? Someone you love? Who can you take your grief to except to the one who knows you from the beginning of time, even if he’s the one that caused your grief. You also wrote that God doesn’t make things right and, what, he gets a pass? He has to suffer the repercussions. This, too, was something I dealt with during my husband’s illness and ultimate passing. The answer is “yes.” Yes, he gets a pass. Why? Because I trust him and I trust his plan. See, none of our “blessings” are meant for this world. When you finally surrender – and I believe you will – you will see that God really is EVERYTHING. Some other things: you’re in deep emotional pain, just like I was most of my life. I held onto that pain like a blanket, covered myself with it, SURE that God was not on my side. Then one day, God said through someone else – GIVE IT TO ME. He wasn’t going to take it; he’s a gentleman. He won’t wrestle you for it. He won’t beg you for it. You can’t give it to him and take it back. You must give it over. When I finally did, I felt incredible love and compassion. Why did I hold it for so long. It’s hard to trust what we don’t understand. That’s why we need to trust WHO God is. I suggest you go to the YouVersion Bible app and start the study plan “Bible Recap” with Tara-Lee Cobble. She said one thing that set me on a new trajectory: Stop looking for yourself in the Bible; look for God’s character. Try it. One last thing: You’ve said several times that God has proven that he doesn’t love you because you’re not seeing material blessings in this world. Apostle Paul says I consider it all trash except for my relationship with Christ. Jeff – It’s all trash. All the wealth, all the feel-good stuff we see on TV and in Hallmark cards. The only thing that matters is the love we share and our relationship with him. God IS love.

      2. jeffs66111 Avatar
        jeffs66111

        Hi ConnieL. I know your intentions are good, but your analysis is wrong. Who would I give suffering to? NOBODY. God creates us, forces us into life, and then sits back and watches us suffer. Why should we suffer because He wants to play some sick game? If I picked anybody, it would be people who are actually rotten, many of whom we choose to represent us because we fall for their evil tricks. And why should I have to take my grief to anyone, let alone God? He’s never comforted me…seriously NEVER. And I disagree that God gets a pass. Trust is a two way street. If His actions destroy my trust, it’s HIS responsibility to earn it back, not for me to act like He didn’t fail me and act like nothing happened. I spent YEARS trying to “give it” to Him, but He NEVER took it from me…in fact, He ALWAYS made it worse! So, why would I take it to Him again? I long ago lost trust in who “God is”. None of his actions in my life point to anything other than a God who doesn’t give a **** about me. Even worse, it seems like He WANTS me to suffer. My life and my relationship with God offers NO evidence to the contrary.

        You say “the only thing that matters is the love we share and our relationship with Him. God is love”

        If that’s the case, can God love me LESS? Because if His plan for my life requires my over ½ a century of suffering, there is NOTHING loving about that when you consider He is absolutely omnipotent and knows everything BEFORE He even creates us. That means He HAS to get some sort of pleasure out of our suffering. And I played that game long enough and I won’t play it anymore. He knows what He MUST do if He wants a renewed relationhsip with me. I’ve done all I can and I’m tapped out.

  25. Danielle Benjamin Avatar
    Danielle Benjamin

    I have really been struggling lately, feeling like I have lost trust in God after experiencing a very difficult second miscarriage. But this article really helped me refocus. Thank you so much. I see God’s hand in my life now and I am getting the focus off of me and back onto God! Thank you again for speaking truth!

    1. Dear Danielle!

      Thanks for the note. So sorry to hear about your difficulties. Let me know if you ever need to chat.

      Tom

  26. Matthew Gallacher Avatar
    Matthew Gallacher

    a lot of interesting opinions and viewpoints on here. I don’t trust God either and find it impossible to do so. I’m only 30 so not much life experience but still. I can certainly empathize with many here. Perhaps one day I’ll be able to and finally be able to answer the question of “am I saved or not” but who knows at this point?

  27. “First, you need to work through intellectually and emotionally that God did not do anything to you. Yes, He allowed something to happen, but just like He can’t take away your free will, He couldn’t take away the free will of the person who transgressed against you.”

    Typical Christian double-talk. Christians cannot have it both ways:

    Either:

    1. God is the Glorious Saviour of His people from their enemies, and is to be glorified for His mighty salvation – even though saving His people frustrates the intentions of the enemies;

    Or:

    2. God does not save His people, because that would frustrate the freely- willed intentions of the enemies; but he is still to be glorified anyway, as God the Saviour, even though he has left his people to the freely-willed intentions of their enemies.

    Which is it ? Either God saves, even if people’s free will is frustrated; or, free will is so important, that God won’t violate it even to save people.

    “Yes, it sucks,”

    No. What sucks, hugely, is the intellectual dishonesty, lack of integrity, and two-facedness of Christianity, its Scriptures, its God, & its apologists.

    “but God didn’t cause the problem, someone else did. Don’t project your pain, disappointment, and emotions against God.”

    If God wants to be praised for his supposed benefits, then God cannot dodge being criticised & blamed for the bad stuff God allows. Why is God such a moral coward, when mere human beings show they are capable of taking flak for what they have done wrong ? The Christian God has no guts, no honesty, no capacity to take supremely well deserved criticism. The Christian God is a narcissistic, whiny, egotistic, lying psychopath.

    Besides, if God’s Providence rules all of creation, in all details – which is traditional Christian theism BTW – then God is reponsible for all human choices. It is totally God’s fault alone, that God failed to create human beings who would freely choose to do God’s Will in all things. It is totally God’s fault alone that sin entered the world. That people are capable of choosing evil, & of abusing their free will by doing so, would be impossible, if God had not made it possible. That there is evil in the world, and sin, and all its consequences, is totally God’s fault, for being such an incompetent, foolish, bungling & possibly malicious Creator.

    “Instead, understand who God is in your relationship and follow his instructions to forgive the person who transgressed so that you are not a slave to that person’s actions.”

    OK. That all being the case, it is pointless, dishonest, & deceitful – all 3 of those things – to pretend to oneself, and (much worse) to tell or preach to others, that God is a Saviour. One of the worst lies in Christianity is the gigantic falsehood that God is a Saviour. It is demonstrable, from millions of examples, that God is the Non-Saviour, the One leaves in the lurch those who are foolish enough to trust in God’s (wholly imaginary) Almighty aid. As for the idiocy that is prayer, the answer to the fools who encourage that superstitious trash must be the mocking ridicule of Elijah for the trust of the prophets of Baal in their God. These words perfectly describe the reality of Christian prayer, rather than the lies and drivel about it in the New Testament. So, to quote:

    27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Kings+18&version=NIV

    The sneering words of Elijah perfectly describe the deluded nonsense taught by Jesus about prayer, and the empty waste of time & effort that is Christian prayer. The Christian doctrine is nothing but snake-oil; it is intolerable, an abomination, that such practices, and the promotion of them, are allowed, even subsidised, by the State. For the State not to make the promotion of prayer a crime, amounts to conniving at fraud. It is evil that the frauds known as preachers are permitted to encourage others to pray, because they are encouraging a wicked, useless, pointless, practice that people engage in only to be disappointed when their (often long-continued) petitions get absolutely nowhere. The damage done to people who trusted in God their Betrayer & Deceiver, in God the true Father of Lies, is heart-breaking to think of.

    59 Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
        nor his ear too dull to hear.

    Trying telling that to the millions of Jews massacred throughout the centuries. Not only is the Exodus-story a lying fairy-tale, but when the Jews were really in need of salvation from their enemies, God lovingly abandoned them. As he always does abandon those who trust him.

    But your iniquities have separated
        you from your God;
    your sins have hidden his face from you,
        so that he will not hear.

    There’s always an excuse. The fact remains, that the lying promises of God always turn out to have a lot of “small print”, which comes into being only after one has been deceived into trusting Biblegod. The fact is, that Biblegod – or its messengers & apologists – always manages to worm its way out of even the most binding, loophole-free commitments. There is always some miserable lying excuse that allows Biblegod to slither, like the snake it is, out of honouring its promises. Human beings are vastly better than that – oath-breakers & promise-breakers & perjurers & liars are suchlike pondscum are despised, even prosecuted as criminals. It is Christianity which is a tissue of lies & falsehoods, and which glorifies God the Liar. This is disgusting.

  28. The formatting on this page is terrible. I wrote a post in several paragraphs, and it has all been printed as a wall of text.

    1. Hi Jim – Sorry about that. I’m seeing it like you wrote it on my end.

      1. Yes, it seems to have come through now.

  29. It seems to have come through now, anyway

  30. I am really struggling & need prayer for something very difficult that is causing me to want to give up on life. I am being hurt by people that I thought were my friends but when I wouldn’t play by their rules & be controlled by immature 2-faced “high school” JEALOUS behavior from 1 of the “leaders” in the group, they all turned on me making it look like I was the problem because now they’re all good w/ one another. These people say & do things & then literally deny that it ever happened & what makes it even more difficult is that my marriage is not perfect & I finally trusted/confided in these people but now I regret being open & vulnerable & to add another layer, they are also my neighbors very close by. I keep trying to pray & trust God’s word but I feel so defeated & betrayed with thoughts of wanting to give up.

    1. Dawn,

      Thanks for sharing and of course I will be praying for comfort and clarity in this situation. If you’d like to talk more privately, please email me at heavydeepreal@gmail.com

      Tom

  31. I know this is a fallen world and I know that God’s ways and thoughts are not our ways and thoughts…but it would really throw off His plan if we were given a break once in a while? Yes, some sufferings are the natural results of human foolishness and can be considered “self-afflicted,” but the ever-increasing misery in seemingly everyone’s lives makes it seem like God can’t be bothered to even provide a way THROUGH our trials…much less a way OUT of our trials.

    I’m just tired of getting stones instead of bread, of getting snakes instead of fish, and of getting scorpions instead of eggs. Yet every time I pray and I see the circumstances around me…no matter how much I ask for the resources or even the right mindset of how to approach my trials…His response always seems to be “You’re on your own.”

    I would also like to add that it’s difficult to praise Him when you’re on the verge of the nervous breakdown on an almost daily basis. I know my life isn’t in mortal danger like that of Paul, but doesn’t the mental anguish His creations suffer through matter to Him at all?

  32. Someone God doesn't favor Avatar
    Someone God doesn’t favor

    I think the comments is way more helpful than the posts. Pastor you should keep it going in the comments if people still want to, instead of going privately.

    I am especially related to Jeff’s. at a point that we exhaust all advices, resources, books, prayers, including the cs lewis the problem of pain. Trust in God with silence bring me to an absolute solid desperate never before.

    I realized that after this “rely on God” thing, I know a lot of weakness on me, I guess that’s what God want us to know. That’s fine, but God destoried me, not refiled with himself as promised. I feel that lost myself, eventhough I have a lot of weakness, and made bad decisions, but I used to be courages, curious, open; now after the “rely on God” thing, I feel all the advantages are gone. I lost my self, and didn’t find God.

    “Rely on God” develops an deadly end desperate and anger on me that I didn’t have before. I guess compares to a God not responding to me, or Chose some people to bless, others to ignore or to suffer, depending on self is a better apporach, even I know I might disappointed myself, and I am not strong, but I am the reason and person to account to, and I am the person to continue going.

    1. Yes, I like the comments dialogue as well! However, some people have some private stuff to share so I give them that opportunity as well.

      Tom

  33. William Avatar
    William

    I first met God when I was a child. For my entire life, even during those times when we weren’t on speaking terms, He was always the most important person in my life. 50 years ago was when I first thought about ending my life. The frustrations in life seemed to cause me to feel like life was not worth living. That is not to say that I’ve had an unusually amount of hardships. Objectively I have had a good life, but over the last 30 years I have hated every moment of it. And it continually gets worse. It’s like I have Fibromyalgia of the soul, I feel emotional pain even when there is no apparent cause. And the things that bring me pleasure or joy continually decrease. I try to sleep as much as I can, because that is when I have the most peace. I could list all the avenues (or should I say cul-de-sacs) and efforts I have tried for relief, but brevity is the soul of wit and I consider the list exhaustive as I am indeed exhausted. Early In my life there were a couple of issues that were important to me, and there are indeed scriptural passages that indicate they are part of God’s general will for all people. I sought God and received communication that these promises would be fulfilled by Him specifically in my life. I retired a little over a year ago and that forced me to acknowledge that it was now to late, the things I hoped for in life were never going to occur including the promises. I don’t trust God for this life and I don’t know how. If He spoke to me, how would I know it was Him? Why would I believe it. The only hope I have is in eternity. I didn’t want to live when I was healthy and a lifetime of sadness, depression, loneliness does lead to physical problems. My health issues are accumulating, why go on? I don’t think you are going to have any useful answers as my spiritual and mental health advisors have sadly failed even after much effort. I don’t blame them as they are like me frail finite creatures who are designed to be in need of an infinite Creator. I can’t say God is not with me as I have seen Him help me many times, usually over things I don’t care about. He has His agenda, I don’t understand it.

    Why burden you with this tragedy? I rolled the dice, I had 6 options (you probably would not like the other options) That led to this. My constant prayer is that I am a blessing and not a curse to those I encounter, I wish I could have done better by you.

  34. John K Avatar
    John K

    My last post did not make it…(to big?) Short version: I lost trust & faith in in God. Because of a spoiled brat sibling: I was denied to raise & be with children. I was denied being famous. My songs, art, ideas stolen, including oppertunities in life. I want it all back. I want to relive my life & it goes all my way & inexchange I give up the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of Jesus Christ, & my chance to be saved. Life goes my way for my glory. I don’t need Christ. Genesis 6:6 what was God thinking? He was not. He hurt me denying me my children, fame, & fortune. I don’t trust God. The Holy Spirit is not comfort, only nothing but burden.

    1. Hi,

      I’ve tried to email you privately a couple times but the email bounces back undeliverable. Reach out to me at heavydeepreal@gmail.com!!

      1. John K Avatar
        John K

        Another reason why I don’t want Jesus. My emails being denied to me & UNLESS I am protected my phone numbers (had in the past) will be used as a weapon. I want my life returned to me. God enjoys this. I want to tell & show the world how cruel Jesus has been to me. All because of a sibling wants to ‘play god’ over my life. Make fun of our last name. Maybe I can open a can of worms & make the entire story public…I want my life back. I want a diffrent person for a sibling. I can tell you who took from me… It will open up to a black magic mind game that don’t exist. I met a lot of famous people. I should be famous. I want my life. I want the public know; I am hurting God for doing this me. He is not going to have my life controlled by anyone or Him, Only by me. Sorry to waste your time. But this is ALL YOUR God’s fault. I had my life my way, we will be having a diffrent conversation. More possitive. I am depressed & want my life back.

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